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Thread: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

  1. #1
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    Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    After Leake's game last night, our starting 5 have been very tight in production. ERA (2.91 - 3.28) and WAR (.9 - 1.3) for our 5 slots is all in a very tight band. We have 5 pitchers in the top 32 in the NL in WAR out of about 200 pitchers, and 7 in the top 52. Unfortunately Pit and STL also have 5 up there as well. Of the top 36 Pitchers in WAR 24 come from CIN,PIT,STL,COL and PHI, and 12 come from the other 10 NL teams.
    Code:
    NAME	    GP         	GS	QS	W	L	SV	HLD	IP	H	ER	HR	BB	SO	K/9	P/GS	WAR	WHIP	ERA
    Cingrani/Cueto	10	10	4	4	0	0	0	55.1	40	20	10	19	67	10.9	94.7	1.3	1.07	3.25
    Mat Latos	9	9	7	4	0	0	0	58.2	54	19	6	15	51	7.82	99.9	1	1.18	2.91
    Bronson Arroyo	9	9	6	4	4	0	0	60.1	57	22	6	10	36	5.37	91	1.2	1.11	3.28
    Homer Bailey	9	9	6	2	3	0	0	58.1	50	20	4	15	55	8.49	95.9	1.2	1.11	3.09
    Mike Leake	9	9	4	4	2	0	0	55.1	62	20	5	15	38	6.18	93.7	0.9	1.39	3.25
    Total Starters	46	46	27	18	9	0	0	288	263	101	31	74	247	7.72		5.6	1.17	3.15

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    mbgrayson (05-22-2013)

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  4. #2
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    Interesting. I wonder if the pitching coach has anything to do with it.

  5. #3
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    Nice chart. Thanks for compiling this.

  6. #4
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Question - do we have a reasonable expectation that this will continue?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  7. #5
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Question - do we have a reasonable expectation that this will continue?
    I do.

    The problem is for the moment, the Cardinals starting pitching is doing even better than ours.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #6
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    Each of the 6 players who has started a game for the Reds this year has an ERA between 3.09 and 3.27. Amazing.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    The Reds starters so far have been incredible, with 6 pitchers all in the 3.0-3.3 range. That is incredible after nearly a third of the season.

    But there is so much good pitching everywhere. I have been watching baseball since the early 80's and have studied the history of the game. What is going on right now and the last 2-3 years is pretty weird. Not is offense down in general, but there just seem to be so many quality pitchers who 15-20 years ago would have been an Allstar pitcher and now are a 2-3 guy on an average team.

    This leads me to ask- what is going on. I think there are many factors at work. One of the most compelling is the increased use of technology and situational metrics to analyze hitters' weaknesses and learn their tendencies. I think this has worked less in favor of the hitters although it seems like they too would have an advantage by studying pitchers' techniques and patterns. It's always a cat and mouse game between the two but it just seems like the technological revolution has helped pitchers.

    The other thing is that the current drug testing has to be the elephant in the room and we might be facing the fact that baseball with no amphetamines, steroids or other PED's looks very different. I think the reality is players from the 70's, 80's, and 90's were using some steroids and it wasn't even looked down on. The Bonds generation took it to a new level and blew the cap off the rocket. Now me might have the cleanest game we've had in years.

    Or,,,, are they all still using something, or do the pitchers have access to some PED that is not tested for, that helps performance in pitching, but not in hitting. Sound conspiracy theory wackjob but that is where we are now. Any thoughts?

  10. #8
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    I think a number of factors are helping pitchers.

    First more power arm youngsters are staying healthy as sports medicine and the understanding of kinesiology of pitchers advances. Pitch counts...leverage stress...guys are avoiding injury that used to blow up before they hit the bigs. Read a out Gary Nolan's account of being a young phenom or Wayne Simpson's to really see the mind boggling abuses of the old approach.

    Technology in film and computer analysis of mechanics. Young guys are far better coached and like Travieso...they are pampered and "fixed" mechanically before being tossed in the arena.

    The technology you mentioned...analysis thru computer filming of zones and hitters tendencies. The old school book was handwritten notes from eyeball. Today its pitch type/zone specific analysis by computer db with pitch by pitch tracking and career sample sizes to verify it.

    The cutter. Fairly novel fastball, a product of the new century and when thrown well almost unhittable. Luckily for hitters it is really difficult to throw a good cutter.

    PEDs. I think they helped hitters more than pitchers. They help you recover faster but they don't add anything to your fastball, improve command or keep you from blowing out a shoulder or elbow.

    Defensive advances. The same technology that helps pitchers is also helping defenses learn how to position for pitcher-hitter combos. Teams are once again valuing defense at the GG positions SS CF and catcher but even corner OF and IFs defense is being given more weight. Metrics keep advancing on the defensive side too. For instance a new study shows catchers ability to frame pitches may be far more important than anyone suspected in changing an ump's calls. Without extrene camera technology and computers that study would be impossible. Good defense makes any pitcher better. Good pitchers become great...average oitchers become good. I've watched a half century of baseball and todays average defender would likely have been a GG candidate in the last great pitching era, the 60s.

  11. #9
    8.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    That's why I don't lose as much sleep about the hitting inconsistencies as some do. I worry a bit about it when it comes to facing good pitching in the playoffs, but I'd MUCH rather have it this way than the other way around. We tried it the other way around for 20+ years.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  12. #10
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    One can argue that the NL Central has the best pitching of any division in baseball. The Cardinals, Reds and Pirates are all excellent (as far as today, anyway) and Milwaukee is underrated, primarily due to a lack of run support.
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

  13. #11
    8.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    One can argue that the NL Central has the best pitching of any division in baseball. The Cardinals, Reds and Pirates are all excellent (as far as today, anyway) and Milwaukee is underrated, primarily due to a lack of run support.
    And they can't catch the ball or throw it.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  14. #12
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    I was just noticing this a couple days ago...It's like the year of the pitchers. There are 6 pitchers with ERA's under 2.00 and 27! with ERA's under 3.00. Usually, if you're under 3.00 you're in the top 10 in MLB...since 2000 only 2 guys have ever finished under 2.00 (Clemens 2005 and Pedro 2000) Of course, things haven't really warmed up yet so the balls not jumping out of any parks, but this is something to keep an eye on. I'm having flashbacks of 1968!

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  15. #13
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    Re: Amazing consistency from the Red's rotation spots

    pitchers are now using more than just 2-3 pitches to get batters out....back in the day a good pitcher had 3 pitches he used and they didnt talk about changing speeds like they do nowadays.....pitchers today change speeds on those 3-4 pitches they use in their arsenal.....as pitchers evolve, batters will eventually evolve with them, it just takes time. Its good to be a baseball fan


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