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Thread: On the declining quality of the ORG

  1. #241
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Buckeye View Post
    I have been reading the ORG for a couple years now and I can honestly say that the quality of the ORG has gotten much much better since the merger.

    It's nice getting new opinions as the old ORG was basically the same people spewing their opinions over and over and over.

    So the idea that the quality of the ORG has gone down is probably just an opinion shared largely by the people who had been on the ORG for a while.

    But since more people are allowed to post it's actually gotten much better.
    But it might have peaked in the 2006 season... A 13 year vet the ORG is only experiencing the typical career arc of a MLB player

    Or not

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  3. #242
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Buckeye View Post
    It's nice getting new opinions as the old ORG was basically the same people spewing their opinions over and over and over.
    Well at least the spewing "in my day..." sentiments are confined to a handful of threads now. Which is nice.

    So the idea that the quality of the ORG has gone down is probably just an opinion shared largely by the people who had been on the ORG for a while.

    But since more people are allowed to post it's actually gotten much better.
    Agree 100%
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

  4. #243
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    What player is exempt from legitimate speculation do to the "we dont know the facts so its fair to ask" concept in your view?
    Are there players that have taken steroids?
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  5. #244
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    You know, I'm going to take another angle.

    Let's talk about proof and having evidence to back it up and accusations, shall we?

    Let's pick a random comment out of this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Hint to others: if you're going to leave don't post that you're going to leave. It comes off looking like your asking people to beg you to stay. We'll do fine without you
    Here Raisor implies that if you post a message saying goodbye, it appears as though you are trying to get others to beg you to stay.

    So we get a goodbye post. And instead of taking the poster at face value, we now have the suggestion that the post is not sincere, that it is only an attempt at garnering sympathy.

    Does Raisor have proof of this? Is there a link? Should he be admonished for violating the message board's mission statement of posting things he only has proof of? Is he degrading the conversation? Is he accusing, without proof, posters who type goodbye notes of not being sincere and then personally attacking their character by suggesting that they are liars and only trying to get others to feel sorry for them?

    Or, could he be privately considering all the possibilities and then posting one that he might think it is?
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  6. #245
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Are there players that have taken steroids?
    Sure there are.

    There are players committing adultery too. Does that mean we can openly speculate about the sanctity of Player X's marriage?
    Last edited by jojo; 07-02-2013 at 06:16 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #246
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post

    Does Raisor have proof of this?
    Raisor can see into the hearts of men some say even into their souls. Should he be admonished or should he be worshiped?

    I don't think anyone has argued that speculating that a player is a cheat is prohibited by the board rules. At least haven't. I've argued that it is counter to the spirit in the board's mission statement and what's more, it's just bad behavior to call the character of others into question without cause.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    dougdirt (07-02-2013), RedEye (07-04-2013)

  9. #247
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Raisor can see into the hearts of men some say even into their souls. Should he be admonished or should he be worshiped?

    I don't think anyone has argued that speculating that a player is a cheat is prohibited by the board rules. At least haven't. I've argued that it is counter to the spirit in the board's mission statement and what's more, it's just bad behavior to call the character of others into question without cause.
    Well stated and I agree and disagree.

    We can leave it there.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  10. #248
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    What is frustrating to many here is that despite the attempts of some to strictly define "cause," the threshold subjectively varies from person to person. Lest one man's definition should not be force-fed to all.

    The standards of implication in discussion should not have to be held to that of the courts, which are justifiably higher to protect a person's rights and risk putting an innocent man behind bars. Opining on a board meant for discussion as to the mere possibility of one engaging in enhancers is no threat to anyone's livelihood and poses no threat to moving the needle of perception on a greater level.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #249
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    What is frustrating to many here is that despite the attempts of some to strictly define "cause," the threshold subjectively varies from person to person. Lest one man's definition should not be force-fed to all.

    The standards of implication in discussion should not have to be held to that of the courts, which are justifiably higher to protect a person's rights and risk putting an innocent man behind bars. Opining on a board meant for discussion as to the mere possibility of one engaging in enhancers is no threat to anyone's livelihood and poses no threat to moving the needle of perception on a greater level.
    That is certainly one take on it.

    One that I strongly disagree with.

  12. Likes:

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  13. #250
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Raisor can see into the hearts of men some say even into their souls. Should he be admonished or should he be worshiped?
    Yes
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  14. #251
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    It is a far more reasonable leap of interpretation to say that MikeThierry's "goodbye" post could have had ulterior motives than it is to say that Yadier Molina's or Chris Davis' on-field performance (as represented by statistics) constitutes evidence of steroid use. It is also a far less objectionable one IMO.

    If I have to convince you to see how the analogy fails, then I think we should probably take this to PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  15. #252
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    PEDs aside for now, I think we may have culled another topic from the ORG. It has two main axes:

    1) Posters complaining that others are using logically fallacious argumentation by not seeking (or refusing to acknowledge) statistical evidence in an aggressive manner.

    2) Posters complaining that others are using alienating argumentation by aggressively seeking statistical evidence where it hasn't been used -- or hasn't been used effectively.

    Both sides are, you probably note, aggressive -- and they continue to talk past each other a lot of the time. There is, however, a growing number of group #2 that I've noticed recently since the merger.

    Discuss.
    Last edited by RedEye; 07-05-2013 at 12:07 AM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #253
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    It is a far more reasonable leap of interpretation to say that MikeThierry's "goodbye" post could have had ulterior motives than it is to say that Yadier Molina's or Chris Davis' on-field performance (as represented by statistics) constitutes evidence of steroid use. It is also a far less objectionable one IMO.

    If I have to convince you to see how the analogy fails, then I think we should probably take this to PM.
    What sort of ulterior motives could Mike have?

    If it's all the same, I don't do PM.
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 07-05-2013 at 09:41 AM.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  17. #254
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    What sort of ulterior motives could Mike have?

    If it's all the same, I don't do PM.
    Ulterior motives in the sense that Mike's actual objective (staying at RZ) would be different than his explicit one (leaving). That's the high stakes gambit of Raisor's interpretation since it is 1) possible to interpret those intentions reasonably from what he wrote and 2) limited in its scope. Far different than using stats to accuse a player of steroids.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  18. #255
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    What sort of ulterior motives could Mike have?

    If it's all the same, I don't do PM.
    Ahem
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."


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