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Thread: On the declining quality of the ORG

  1. #31
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    I appreciate everyone's feedback, and without getting into specifics, we've taken some measures that we hope will alleviate some of the problems. When you encounter a post, or series or posts, that violates site rules, I ask that you (anonymously) report the post(s) instead of responding in a manner that is not conducive to civil discussion.
    Does that mean that mods don't see who is reporting posts, or anonymous as in, just report it and don't speak of it?

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  3. #32
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC1212 View Post
    I'm having this problem too. I used to love coming here to see what everyone was talking about each day and while I still come here semi regularly, I don't find myself even wanting to participate in too many threads anymore because everyone seems to be arguing, snarking at each other, way off topic from the original discussion, or somehow the main topic of the thread became that annoying team in Missouri. Wading through everything just doesn't keep my interest and it really bums me out.
    I know it's easy to get discouraged, but remember part of what made this place great is folks sticking around and demanding a higher standard. We need quality posters, like you and others, to stay active if this is going to remain the premier place to talk about the Reds on the internet.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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    _Sir_Charles_ (06-03-2013)

  5. #33
    Member foxfire123's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    I was one of the ones against the merger. Even tho I had the time in, and the post count, I had no interest in joining ORG.

    To me, many (not all, just some) of the ORG always came across as the serious baseball guys. The ones who followed sabermetrics and all that statistical stuff. Who knew baseball history down to the nth degree, who could name the 3rd batter of the 7th game of the XX WS game right down to how many pitches they faced in each at bat, how many strikes and balls and how fast they ran to first. I never wanted to be that kind of fan Not that it's bad in any way, just too... Intense for me. This is fun. Baseball is a good time and entertainment. I just don't want to *work* at it.

    the old Sun Deck was more like sitting down in a sports bar with a bunch of guys who, while they love the game, knew the history to an extent, followed some of the stats, etc. They were more there for a good time. Not to analyze everything. They love the game, and do take it serious, they're good, loyal fans, but not THAT serious. If I'm making any sense....

    I don't want to be in a place where every post is analyzed and inspected to meet a standard of "quality". If you're the type of fan who love the minute details of statistics and want to analyze every aspect of the game, hey, go for it. If that makes you happy, then I'm all for it for you. But the fact that *I* don't go to that level, doesn't make me any less of a fan. or my contributions less "quality".
    Last edited by foxfire123; 05-29-2013 at 04:39 PM.

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  7. #34
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    I was one of the ones against the merger. Even tho I had the time in, and the post count, I had no interest in joining ORG.

    To me, many (not all, just some) of the ORG always came across as the serious baseball guys. The ones who followed sabermetrics and all that statistical stuff. Who knew baseball history down to the nth degree, who could name the 3rd batter of the 7th game of the XX WS game right down to how many pitches they faced in each at bat, how many strikes and balls and how fast they ran to first. I never wanted to be that kind of fan Not that it's bad in any way, just too... Intense for me. This is fun. Baseball is a good time and entertainment. I just don't want to *work* at it.

    the old Sun Deck was more like sitting down in a sports bar with a bunch of guys who, while they love the game, knew the history to an extent, followed some of the stats, etc. They were more there for a good time. Not to analyze everything. They love the game, and do take it serious, they're good, loyal fans, but not THAT serious. If I'm making any sense....

    I don't want to be in a place where every post is analyzed and inspected to meet a standard of "quality". If you're the type of fan who love the minute details of statistics and want to analyze every aspect of the game, hey, go for it. If that makes you happy, then I'm all for it for you. But the fact that *I* don't go to that level, doesn't make me any less of a fan. or my contributions less "quality".
    I began as a lurker here in the cincinnati.com/Gallagher days. The cincinnati.com board was overrun by anti-Griffey (whiffey) trolls that would stop at nothing to disrupt decent conversation. Redszone was established to be something else, something better. I guess I point that out because I disagree with your characterization of the ORG. It's not a collection of folks that know it alls. Far from it. Some folks know a lot; some folks know a little. Some like to rely on what their eyes tell them; others like to believe what an equation tells them. Most folks are somewhere in between. We have posters that make you feel like you're hashing it out with a buddy at the neighborhood bar, while others can break things down like a brilliant statistician. People come and go, but Redszone (and the ORG) has always been a varied group. I can assure you of that. The common thread through the years has been a passion for baseball and ta collective commitment to elevate the conversation above what you find on other message boards.

    It isn't about knowledge of stats or knowledge of baseball history. No one gives you a quiz at the door. That being said, I'd argue it's one of the best places on the internet to expand your knowledge about baseball, if you so desire. If not, no one is going to accuse you of being less of a fan. You might get challenged on some positions you take, but what's the value in everyone agreeing with you all the time (especially if you could be wrong)?

    The ORG is embodied in the guy it's named after. I'm sure you're aware on some level that he was a former poster here that made a lasting impression. Unfortunately, server crashes over the years have wiped out the vast majority of his posts, but a few remain. If you haven't read them, I'd encourage you to do so. This is a good thread to check out: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79772

    You'll find that he doesn't talk about advanced statistics; he doesn't talk about baseball history other than what he experienced himself. His posts are a guy telling the rest of us what he knows. It didn't require him to know any advanced statistics or detailed history of the game. All it required was his passion and the desire to convey it in a quality manner. IMHO, that's the essence of the ORG.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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    *BaseClogger* (05-30-2013)

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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    You know, I sat on my hands for several days before posting here about this discussion, because I just knew someone would take my comments the wrong way. Nowhere did I say that the ORG guys are "know it alls". Some people like the statistical and analysis part of it, others don't. Nobody should be made to feel unwelcome or "lesser" because of that.

    We're all a bunch of people who share a common love of a baseball team. And if some of us like a lighter note and being able to joke around and be kind of silly in a game thread, or post an off the wall topic, then we shouldn't have to worry about being snarked at for not being serious and lowering the quality of the board.

  10. #36
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    You know, I sat on my hands for several days before posting here about this discussion, because I just knew someone would take my comments the wrong way. Nowhere did I say that the ORG guys are "know it alls". Some people like the statistical and analysis part of it, others don't. Nobody should be made to feel unwelcome or "lesser" because of that.

    We're all a bunch of people who share a common love of a baseball team. And if some of us like a lighter note and being able to joke around and be kind of silly in a game thread, or post an off the wall topic, then we shouldn't have to worry about being snarked at for not being serious and lowering the quality of the board.
    I wasn't offended by your post in the least. I disagree with your characterization of the ORG, but that doesn't mean I took it the wrong way. Just offering a different perspective.

    I can't speak for what's happened in game threads. I rarely partake.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  11. #37
    Member foxfire123's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I wasn't offended by your post in the least. I disagree with your characterization of the ORG, but that doesn't mean I took it the wrong way. Just offering a different perspective.

    I can't speak for what's happened in game threads. I rarely partake.
    Peace then.

    And I shouldn't have said "unwelcome" in that second post. I never felt unwelcome per se, just more intimidated I guess is a better way to put it.

  12. #38
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Does that mean that mods don't see who is reporting posts, or anonymous as in, just report it and don't speak of it?
    No, the moderators and administrators see who reported it, but no one else does. I meant to say it's anonymous from the "public".

  13. #39
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC1212 View Post
    I'm having this problem too. I used to love coming here to see what everyone was talking about each day and while I still come here semi regularly, I don't find myself even wanting to participate in too many threads anymore because everyone seems to be arguing, snarking at each other, way off topic from the original discussion, or somehow the main topic of the thread became that annoying team in Missouri. Wading through everything just doesn't keep my interest and it really bums me out.
    I understand. Now that we've gotten into specifics, it's interesting that your gripes are totally different than Redeye's:


    To me, the poster 1) ignores the context of the season, the statistics and the player; then 2) proposes a rash and ill-informed solution (DFA) in his thread title.

    ORG posts should have a modicum of reflection behind them. It's not a forum where you just "say anything." At least that's what I thought before the merger...I almost feel like analyzing what's wrong with this is killing my brain cells... but the poster ignores once again the context and the actual evidence on Rolen, as well as making slapdash conclusions about Frazier ("turning into the dud he was initially projected to be") all, once again, without the benefit of evidence to back up his/her claims. I'm not talking statistical evidence, necessarily -- just basic attention to the reality of the situation he's writing about
    Seems to me Redeye is turned off by overly negative posts about Reds' players along with ridiculously radical solutions whereas you dislike the bickering. Personally I lean more towards your side because the threads that begin with signing a retired player to play everyday or cutting our starting SS are easy for me to skip and avoid opening altogether which is generally what I do. Sometime some very provocative subjects are ruined by snarkiness and personal attacks and that's a shame.

    Thanks to you and Redeye for your candor...

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    RedEye (05-29-2013)

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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    To me Vottomatics antics in today's game thread was embarrassing.
    Can you elaborate or would that be pouring salt in your wounds?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #41
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Seems to me Redeye is turned off by overly negative posts about Reds' players along with ridiculously radical solutions whereas you dislike the bickering. Personally I lean more towards your side because the threads that begin with signing a retired player to play everyday or cutting our starting SS are easy for me to skip and avoid opening altogether which is generally what I do. Sometime some very provocative subjects are ruined by snarkiness and personal attacks and that's a shame.

    Thanks to you and Redeye for your candor...
    That's a fair characterization of my gripes, yes. FWIW I am also turned off by petty attacks and bickering -- although I tend to enjoy debate and the back and forth of good, logical argument, and I don't mind if it gets heated as long as the attacks aren't against the debater. But yeah, RedTruck's post were most frustrating to me because they weren't even reflective enough to offer a reason to reply. They were just dead weight, and that's something that I've seen pretty rarely in the ORG until recently.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  17. #42
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Can you elaborate or would that be pouring salt in your wounds?
    My issue with him that day was the constant Dusty bashing and not leaving it alone and some of the comments that came along with it. I get it, not everyone likes Dusty, he does make some off the wall decisions sometimes, but like I said in the thread that nite, make your peace and move on. The constant harping about Dustyism's was getting annoying. I think things should be handled kinda like our spat we had the other day, once you get to a certain point just say that we agree to disagree and move on. I know sometimes I can be snarky sometimes, just the military side of me I guess, but I don't ever try to be disrespectful toward anyone. At the end of that game thread tho Vottomattic explained himself a little better and cleared things up as far as I'm concerned. Everyone at some point has an issue with anothers post, its how you handle it and move on that counts. I know I have to work on that some, but I try. Enough of my rambling, time to move on....LOL


  18. #43
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    Redeye, I don't have a problem with you. I really enjoy your posts. But you open a thread like this, and then just a few days ago you referred to me as "your honor" in a snarky way that does nothing but devolve the conversation into a mess.

    And that's not singling you out. I've been a little more snippy around here lately too, for many of the reasons you've already stated. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I don't know if I'd single the merger out as the main problem. Maybe it contributes, but the quality of the ORG was in free-fall way before the merger ever occured.

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    mth123 (06-01-2013)

  20. #44
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    Re: On the declining quality of the ORG

    In my opinion, if "bad" threads or posts stick out like a sore thumb and many users are identifying it, that means the quality is high. If there were no complaints, that would mean the quality level was low and not being sunken below.

    I think the effective discussion should be what to do when low quality posts emerge, not whether this is an epidemic that will destroy the board or whether the board itself has lost quality. Bad posts happen. Deal with them appropriately. All talk beyond those points seem more like an opportunity to reminisce about the quality of years past or to share personal anecdotes about how the board has let them down.

    As I said, it takes a high quality board for a handful of bad threads to stick out so sorely. They will never disappear completely and moderation is a necessary part of a high quality forum.
    Cincinnati Reds 2014 W-L Record: 76.6-85.4*

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  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Redeye, I don't have a problem with you. I really enjoy your posts. But you open a thread like this, and then just a few days ago you referred to me as "your honor" in a snarky way that does nothing but devolve the conversation into a mess.

    And that's not singling you out. I've been a little more snippy around here lately too, for many of the reasons you've already stated. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I don't know if I'd single the merger out as the main problem. Maybe it contributes, but the quality of the ORG was in free-fall way before the merger ever occured.
    Sorry about that -- it was totally meant as a clever jest, not as a personal affront, but I certainly see how you could have read it that way! Sometimes tone is hard to read in this format; I got carried away and should have been more respectful of that fact.

    I agree that the problem has been around for awhile, but before the merger it was more a problem of a lack of interesting threads and conversations. Now we have the threads and conversations, but I'm not sure quality has come along with quantity.

    That said, our main offender (RedTruck) seems to have disappeared. So maybe the most egregious problem has passed for now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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