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Thread: Most important player to NL Central teams

  1. #61
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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Chapman doesn't have an 100% conversion rate but people often say that he and Cordero had similar save conversion stats. Who would you rather have out there in the ninth? A guy that can work through it but gives the other team hope by being hittable, or a guy like chapman, who is generally not very hittable and can shut down the game pretty rapidly with three Ks? I think I'm going chapman if that option is available and thinking that trading him and using a different guy in the 9th doesn't weaken the 9th and the overall structure of the pen doesn't make much sense to me whether he be a pitcher or thrower.
    For me it's Coco, no question. Chapman is a work in progress and maybe 3-4 years down the road he will be a pitcher and not a thrower. Right now, if given the choice I would go with a combo of Marshall/Lecure in the 9th depending on whom was coming to bat.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    For me it's Coco, no question. Chapman is a work in progress and maybe 3-4 years down the road he will be a pitcher and not a thrower. Right now, if given the choice I would go with a combo of Marshall/Lecure in the 9th depending on whom was coming to bat.
    That'd get rough. They are both solid very solid guys but in the 9th they make a mistake it could get crushed at 88 to 90 mph. Chapman does at 100 and it could easily be missed. I get your argument. They are way better pitchers but chapman a stuff is so electric it trumps it in my mind and you don't trade that just because we think we aren't getting full value out if him.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    For me it's Coco, no question. Chapman is a work in progress and maybe 3-4 years down the road he will be a pitcher and not a thrower. Right now, if given the choice I would go with a combo of Marshall/Lecure in the 9th depending on whom was coming to bat.
    I totally agree though that he is a thrower and not a pitcher. I think leaving him as closer does stunt his development towards becoming a pitcher. I want him to start, but this year inthinknkeeping him in the pen was the right move. The reds are going for it all and I want my guys in positions of strength where I know they can succeed. Now next year with arroyo gone, unless we get someone or someone steps up in a major way in the minors, i want him starting and developing into a pitcher.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I totally agree though that he is a thrower and not a pitcher. I think leaving him as closer does stunt his development towards becoming a pitcher. I want him to start, but this year inthinknkeeping him in the pen was the right move. The reds are going for it all and I want my guys in positions of strength where I know they can succeed. Now next year with arroyo gone, unless we get someone or someone steps up in a major way in the minors, i want him starting and developing into a pitcher.
    Given how talent laden we are in the pen, to me this was the perfect time to start Chapman in AAA. Let him go out and start every fifth day down there and learn. Hey if there is an injury we have enough talent to cover and more then enough arms to handle closing. Then come next year when we lose Bronson, we could look at adding either Chapman or Cigiarini as starters or both and maybe deal Leake and another player for some more offense. He is just wasting away in the pen this season for no reason.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    That'd get rough. They are both solid very solid guys but in the 9th they make a mistake it could get crushed at 88 to 90 mph. Chapman does at 100 and it could easily be missed. I get your argument. They are way better pitchers but chapman a stuff is so electric it trumps it in my mind and you don't trade that just because we think we aren't getting full value out if him.
    Average Philly hitters and or Marlins and last year Stros hitters had no problem "crushing" Chapman. I will take my chances with Lecure and Marshall being able to pitch around good hitting instead of Chapman hoping they can't catch up with his fastball.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Average Philly hitters and or Marlins and last year Stros hitters had no problem "crushing" Chapman. I will take my chances with Lecure and Marshall being able to pitch around good hitting instead of Chapman hoping they can't catch up with his fastball.
    I think you taking a minority of cases and acting like its normal. The guy generally doesn't get hit all that much.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    First, Votto has seven homers this year, and last year got injured, so not sure what you're talking about. And maybe Yadi did stop using whatever he was using out of fear of getting caught? Although his overall power numbers aren't down by the much.

    Second, plenty of people have been suspicious of Molina and lots of other players. Just go to other message boards.

    Third, did you suspect Melky Cabrera or Ryan Braun before they failed their drug tests? Was anyone accusing them before they got caught?

    Fans are naive if they think only players who get caught are guilty of PED use. Not everyone gets tested, it's random. With the money out there, and the weak penalties, we can understand why some players might try, at least for a year or two to build up some nice numbers for a big contract... Kinda like the one Molina signed after his first big, breakout year.

    Again, I'm not saying Molina is guilty of PED use, just that a rarional look at the facts would at the very least make one suspicious.
    So by this rational I guess we're to suppose that Johnny Cueto started taking steroids in 2010. I mean he dropped his ERA by almost a full run. I guess that might explain the injury problems too.

    Shin Soo Choo must have got on the juice this year since his OPS is up 170 points over last year and 250 points over 2011. I guess it makes sense since he's in a contract year.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    So by this rational I guess we're to suppose that Johnny Cueto started taking steroids in 2010. I mean he dropped his ERA by almost a full run. I guess that might explain the injury problems too.

    Shin Soo Choo must have got on the juice this year since his OPS is up 170 points over last year and 250 points over 2011. I guess it makes sense since he's in a contract year.
    -
    Don't forget Brandon Phillips. He was terrible until he got to the Reds. Then he started hitting a bunch of homers. No doubt he's a steroid user. A bunch of people on other message board have said the same thing as well. Not sure how he hasn't been caught yet.

  10. #69
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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    So by this rational I guess we're to suppose that Johnny Cueto started taking steroids in 2010. I mean he dropped his ERA by almost a full run. I guess that might explain the injury problems too.

    Shin Soo Choo must have got on the juice this year since his OPS is up 170 points over last year and 250 points over 2011. I guess it makes sense since he's in a contract year.
    Choo was injured the last few years, and had great years before that.

    Cueto and Phillips were 24 when they turned the corner on their career, which is when most players start to reach their potential. MLB history is littered with players who struggled until around age 24, and then became very productive players. Players who put up six years of below average power, and then at age 28 turn into above averge power hitters are extremely rare, about one every three decades.

    Bt nice try
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Yadier shows up against the Reds like Brandon shows up against the Cardinals.

    Yadier is probably one of the top 3 catchers in the game right now.

    But I heard Larussa actually say, and I'm guessing he was drunk when he was quoted, that Molina was better than Bench. Which just reaffirms that TLR is .......
    I hate to admit it about *any* Cardinals player, and I despise Molina as a rule, but you have to admit he is one of the best catchers in the biz right now. You do have to give him that no matter what team you're a fan of.

    But better than Bench? N-E-V-E-R. Not on his best day or in his wildest dreams.

  12. #71
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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I live in Cardinal country and other than some kidding never have a problem. Most Cards fans are classy still. Trolls are most often found where they can be anonymous. Sounds like RFinMO has a bunch of yahoos working with him. Or young guys who haven't learned to respect other people's differences yet and act like fandom is a real life or death thing.
    I can appreciate to an extent what RFinMO goes through daily, since I have to live it too. True Cards fans are relatively classy, but the bandwaggoneers are the ones who make life here hell for non Cards fans. You have to learn to ignore them, or at least not let them SEE you get irritated--they thrive on that crap. I've gotten to the point where I can ignore pretty much anything, except that one ^&%$$#%^ beer rep who if Cueto's name even gets mentioned has to start blowing off about The Fight.
    Last edited by foxfire123; 05-25-2013 at 12:27 AM.

  13. #72
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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    I can appreciate to an extent what RFinMO goes through daily, since I have to live it too. True Cards fans are relatively classy, but the bandwaggoneers are the ones who make life here hell for non Cards fans. You have to learn to ignore them, or at least not let them SEE you get irritated--they thrive on that crap. I've gotten to the point where I can ignore pretty much anything, except that one ^&%$$#%^ beer rep who if Cueto's name even gets mentioned has to start blowing off about The Fight.
    A lot of fans won't let Cueto off the hook. Any fan base would be upset if a player kicked your catcher in the head and ended his career.

    Just sayin'.
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    A lot of fans won't let Cueto off the hook. Any fan base would be upset if a player kicked your catcher in the head and ended his career.

    Just sayin'.
    Admit it, your name is Sean, right?

    The players have dropped it and let it go, why can't you St Louis fans?

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    Admit it, your name is Sean, right?

    The players have dropped it and let it go, why can't you St Louis fans?
    Personally, I've let it go. If I had to guess why other fans haven't, it's probably that you don't kick another player, even in a fight, especially in the head (considered cowardice).

    It ended a guy's career.

    I could imagine that if the circumstances were reversed, a lot of Red fans would not let it go.

    Wonder if LaRue and his family have let it go ?
    We can share the women, we can share the wine.

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    Re: Most important player to NL Central teams

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofStLouis View Post
    Personally, I've let it go. If I had to guess why other fans haven't, it's probably that you don't kick another player, even in a fight, especially in the head (considered cowardice).

    It ended a guy's career.

    I could imagine that if the circumstances were reversed, a lot of Red fans would not let it go.

    Wonder if LaRue and his family have let it go ?
    If it was intentional, I could understand. But it clearly was an accident.

    Cueto was stupid to be kicking like he did, and he deserves complete blame for the accident. But I can't see how anyone thinks Cueto actually tried to kick LaRue or anyone in that situation.

    We've been through this before. It might have technically ended LaRue's career, but in reality, it simply shortened by a few months.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


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