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Thread: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

  1. #16
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    Just out of curiosity, did you think they were using him correctly at the beginning of the season?
    No. I should correct -- looking at his stats now, in retrospect I don't think the Reds used Parra correctly.

    Parra has faced 37 batters as a Red.

    10 were lefty hitters and Parra did well against them. OPS against of .650.

    27 were righty hitters. OPS against him of 1.442.

    Parra was a starting pitcher, so the tendency may be to leave him out there to pitch longer stints. I've seen enough of him and his stats to be opposed.

    But he does have good stats as a lefty reliever facing lefty hitters over 2012 and the beginning of 2013. LOOGY. Period. It has a chance to work.

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  4. #17
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    This explains why Latos pitched that extra innings with Marshall in the bullpen....

  5. #18
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    No. I should correct -- looking at his stats now, in retrospect I don't think the Reds used Parra correctly.

    Parra has faced 37 batters as a Red.

    10 were lefty hitters and Parra did well against them. OPS against of .650.

    27 were righty hitters. OPS against him of 1.442.

    Parra was a starting pitcher, so the tendency may be to leave him out there to pitch longer stints. I've seen enough of him and his stats to be opposed.

    But he does have good stats as a lefty reliever facing lefty hitters over 2012 and the beginning of 2013. LOOGY. Period. It has a chance to work.
    He was long man and did some mop up duty, so with him the only lefty option now before the 9th, hopefully he will be limited to lefties, which he'll probably walk, then get pulled. Isn't that the LOOGY's job?
    Can't win with 'em

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  6. #19
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    He was long man and did some mop up duty, so with him the only lefty option now before the 9th, hopefully he will be limited to lefties, which he'll probably walk, then get pulled. Isn't that the LOOGY's job?
    Yes, LOL. I remember Denys Reyes as a Red lefty reliever. I used to joke that after he got the initial walk out of the way, he wasn't a bad reliever.

    Let's just hope that Parra can hold the fort reasonably well until Marshall gets back.

  7. #20
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Bullpen just got a lot worse.
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    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Trajinous View Post
    This explains why Latos pitched that extra innings with Marshall in the bullpen....
    It explains why Marshall wasn't used, true.

    It doesn't explain why Latos pitched that inning.

    But onward, that's history.

  9. #22
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Arredondo has 20 walks in 21 innings at AAA with a 4.25 ERA. Against lefties he has a 5 plus ERA and more walks than innings pitched.

    IMO if you need a lefty, get a lefty. Don't rely on these reverse splits that never seem to hold up over the long term.

    Too bad about Marshall, now I would give Parra a shot. But he needs to pitch almost exclusively against lefties. He showed promise against lefties as a reliever in 2012.

    If they look at Parra as a former starter who should work long stints, it will backfire IMO. Treat him as essentially a LOOGY, to use a term I dislike.
    Not all right-handed pitchers are automatically better against left-handers and visa versa. I don't know why you say they "never" hold up, because there are in fact players that do better. Chris Heisey continues to hit better against RHP than LHP.

    RHP/LHP splits aren't the holy grail. They're not always applicable to every player. Some pitchers have tailing fastballs that bite against same-handed batters. Some hitters see the ball better out of the hands of same-handed pitchers.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #23
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    After looking at the Reds AAA & AA pitching staffs it's frightening how few lefty relievers are down there. The only one I saw was Loek Van Mil, the Dutch 7 footer. How hard would it be to find a couple waiver guys at this point?

  11. #24
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Mark Prior. Kerry Wood. Marshall. Dusty strikes again!
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Not all right-handed pitchers are automatically better against left-handers and visa versa. I don't know why you say they "never" hold up, because there are in fact players that do better. Chris Heisey continues to hit better against RHP than LHP.

    RHP/LHP splits aren't the holy grail. They're not always applicable to every player. Some pitchers have tailing fastballs that bite against same-handed batters. Some hitters see the ball better out of the hands of same-handed pitchers.
    LOL, your argument was going someplace until you used the Heisey example. Heisey supports MY position.

    Heisey was reputedly "better against righties" as reflected in his early record. But in 2012 he hit 147 points higher in OPS against LEFTIES. This year, before he got hurt, he was hitting 215 points better against LEFTIES (poorly against both to be sure). Heisey does not "continue" to hit righties better.

    Ryan Ludwick is another example. Reputedly a better hitter against righties. Until 2011. Then it turned around. Hit much better against lefties for the last two years.

    Putting aside great players -- handedness does not strongly influence many great players who succeed against everyone -- I think it is a major factor in baseball roster formation and analysis.

    And while undoubtedly there are some players for whom reverse lefty/righty splits are applicable, it very often reverts to the usual form. As in the Heisey/Ludwick examples.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-24-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  13. #26
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Sounds like another reliever we got from Chicago, the Sox though. Effective for a couple seasons then injuries take over.

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  14. #27
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by herbdizzle View Post
    After looking at the Reds AAA & AA pitching staffs it's frightening how few lefty relievers are down there. The only one I saw was Loek Van Mil, the Dutch 7 footer. How hard would it be to find a couple waiver guys at this point?
    Watching a ST game, I thought Wilkin De La Rosa had a shot at making the team, but he hasn't really been tearing it up.

    He's down in Pensacola now. But he actually has decent MiLB numbers overall.

    But I agree, there have to be some warm bodies with left arms out there that could help.
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  15. #28
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Mark Prior. Kerry Wood. Marshall. Dusty strikes again!
    Don't start...it's not funny!!!

  16. #29
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Jeez. I was a fan of the trade when it happened (and all of last year). But sure looks like that Travis Wood-for-Marshall trade will come back to haunt us. Marshall's shoulder injury isn't going to magically go away. And if it takes surgery, he'll be out until next year and probably not back to his old self until 2015 (final year of his contract).

    Just great.
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  17. #30
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    Re: Marshall on DL: Parra off DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    LOL, your argument was going someplace until you used the Heisey example. Heisey supports MY position.

    Heisey was reputedly "better against righties" as reflected in his early record. But in 2012 he hit 147 points higher in OPS against LEFTIES. This year, before he got hurt, he was hitting 215 points better against LEFTIES (poorly against both to be sure). Heisey does not "continue" to hit righties better.

    Ryan Ludwick is another example. Reputedly a better hitter against righties. Until 2011. Then it turned around. Hit much better against lefties for the last two years.

    Putting aside great players -- handedness does not strongly influence many great players who succeed against everyone -- I think it is a major factor in baseball roster formation and analysis.

    And while undoubtedly there are some players for whom reverse lefty/righty splits are applicable, it very often reverts to the usual form. As in the Heisey/Ludwick examples.
    So basically your argument is that because a small sample size might not always stay consistent with the larger sample, it shows that the small sample, not the large sample, is the real number to pay attention to?

    I especially don't know why you're laughing at the Heisey example. For his career, he is still 140 points better against RHP than LHP despite the 2012 numbers you cite. If anything, it's more likely that 2012 was a fluke than the other way around given it's still the much smaller sample. You used the term "revert" to describe Heisey's splits. What did he "revert" back to? The 2012 season was the only season where he'd done better against LHP and even that is still dwarfed, statistically, by his other seasons. So isn't it more likely that he was reverting away from his actual skills and that 2012 was more of an outlier?

    Citing a small sample as a trend in order to argue regression to a mean that otherwise hasn't been established isn't at all indicative of anything. It's noise.
    Last edited by Brutus; 05-24-2013 at 07:39 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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