When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

[Kcbuckeye22]

Lutz the difference? Votto Choo trying to say that we are Phillips-ing the meaning of their names?

LoL. You're a clever one.

[RedEye]

Redeye, it seems you have (at least in my mind) recently earned a reputation of thread cop and now morality cop. I enjoy your insights on baseball, but I'd be lying if I haven't thought recently, "there goes Redeye again".

I saw a good Bill Maher bit on YouTube recently where he riffs on people demanding apologies/changes when they get offended. His advice - just ignore said offensive event. Great advice if you ask me.

Hehe. That reputation is well deserved, of course.

I don't consider Bill Maher to be one to take advice from on very much at all. But hey, that's just me, and I'm veering off topic again.

I'll continue to stand up for what I think is out of bounds. But I also know when to shut up, because this is a baseball forum, after all. It's not the ACLU.

Carry on, ladies and gents.

[RedEye]

Considering how many baseballs the guy takes off his body, I don't think he's hurting that much inside. He's making a lot of money and seems to like it here.

His walkup music is "Gangnam Style"... He's proud of his Korean heritage and has a huge Korean fanbase. I'm sure he has his own funny thoughts about Americans.

I wasn't speaking specifically about Choo, just for the record. Also, it is quite different when someone shares their own culture (Choo selecting Gangnan Style, for instance) than it is when a person from another culture mocks it.

[kearns and dunn]

And yet finding it offensive is the main reason for me to post about this issue in the first place. Should we then call Lutz a "Kraut"? Perhaps make funny sound effect jokes every time an Asian player steps in the on-deck circle?

Making fun of the way Choo's name sounds and repeatedly referring to him by the most stereotypical dish from his home country is offensive and IMO has no place on this board.

I can't imagine I need to grasp for "theoretical" people who would find that sort of reference in poor taste.

Oh good grief. Ya know, there is such a thing as being too PC.

[RedEye]

Really...Chris Berman has been making puns on peoples names for years. I don't think it's racially insensitive by any means.

Plus I was stationed in Korea for 2 years, this would not offend most Koreans!!!

Since when is Chris Berman is the model for cultural sensitivity?

[RedEye]

Oh good grief. Ya know, there is such a thing as being too PC.

Oh god, you guys keep pulling me back in. Which part of what I wrote was "too PC" for your tastes?

[RedEye]

People try really hard to find ways to be offended these days. Jeez.

Either that or we're just making progress in our understanding of how casual language perpetuates power imbalances.

[RedEye]

Well, those comments aren't technically marginalizing you, so if your argument is that it's offensive and demeaning, you are arguing for a theoretical person who could feel offended. The offense that is occurring directly, first hand, to you is that people are making comments you don't see value or humor in. I guess you could say your right to not see comments you find potentially offensive to others is being marginalized.

My point is that those comments aren't being racially insensitive to you. They are confusing/not funny/in poor taste to you. We can't have a meaningful discussion about the former but we can have a good discussion about the latter.

I know people who are and would be personally offended by those jokes, even though they don't read RZ. Theoretically they could though, so that's why I am bringing it up.

It is also possible that some or many Koreans might not be offended by distasteful puns. That doesn't necessarily make the language less of a problem.

It is possible to be offended by racial insensitivity that does not refer directly to your "own" race.

[Larry Schuler]

I know people who are and would be personally offended by those jokes, even though they don't read RZ. Theoretically they could though, so that's why I am bringing it up.

It is also possible that some or many Koreans might not be offended by distasteful puns. That doesn't necessarily make the language less of a problem.

It is possible to be offended by racial insensitivity that does not refer directly to your "own" race.

Theoretically, everything can be offensive to everyone.

Show me which specific community or set of individuals are being marginalized by the Choo Choo Train puns, along with their individual specific perspective on and reception of the puns. By proof, I mean a rational correlation between the comments/puns and a marginalization or demeaning of the individual; please avoid simply attributing inherent value to a comment ("It's in poor taste" "It's offensive" "It's distasteful") without providing support as to 'why'. If you can't provide a list of the specific individuals due to their own ignorance of, indifference toward, and/or fear of entering the conversation, show me proof of their ignorance, indifference, and/or the existing structure which imposes said fear.

You can custom construct a theoretical individual in your mind who would be offended by a certain subject or comment but, at a certain point, when you begin telling actual, real, non-theoretical people how to behave or act or speak, you better have some actual, real, non-theoretical support to prove your argument. Until you do, please try to frame your position using arguments which are rooted in actual support, such as: "I don't think jokes that could potentially be offensive to certain individuals are funny or up to the standard I'd like to see on RedsZone." Then a meaningful exchange of discussion can be had, as opposed to an argument between two parties about a third party that can't be proven or represented or asked for their input.

[RedEye]

You can custom construct a theoretical individual in your mind who would be offended by a certain subject or comment but, at a certain point, when you begin telling actual, real, non-theoretical people how to behave or act or speak, you better have some actual, real, non-theoretical support to prove your argument. Until you do, please try to frame your position using arguments which are rooted in actual support, such as: "I don't think jokes that could potentially be offensive to certain individuals are funny or up to the standard I'd like to see on RedsZone." Then a meaningful exchange of discussion can be had, as opposed to an argument between two parties about a third party that can't be proven or represented or asked for their input.

Short of telling you the names of my actual friends who are or have been offended by distasteful rhymes using their given family names, I'm not sure how else I could present the sort of non-theoretical evidence you have in mind. I thought that it was pretty well-established that Asians and Asian-Americans -- or at least a large portion of them -- find this kind of humor at best tiresome and at worst personally offensive.

FWIW, I 100% agree with the way you have phrased the bolded comment, and stand ready to have said meaningful exchange. I thought that was more or less the way I phrased my argument earlier, but it may not have been.

[Captain13]

Does anyone else think that puns with Choo's name and ethnic heritage are in poor taste?

No and yes. In that order.

[mattfeet]

Let's get this back on topic, Gents.

[Captain13]

Oh, back on topic. Choo will start hitting on Opening Day 2013 and will continue, with some bumps in the road, all season long!

[NebraskaRed]

Game starts at 7:10. Let's give the Indians 10 minutes to get through the top of the first, then Choo bats leadoff, so...he'll start hitting around 7:20-7:25 tonight.

Not sure why that question needed 3 pages before we got to the answer...

[coachpipe]

Does anyone else think that puns with Choo's name and ethnic heritage are in poor taste?

No I do not. And I saw many Koreans with signs saying Choo Choo train this weekend. So they obviously dont see it as offensive either.

My last name is Piper. And I have never been offended when someone called me peter or any other dumb name. Its all in good humor