Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 81

Thread: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Madison, MS
    Posts
    813

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Except Choo's name doesn't exist in a vacuum. He's not a white boy from Nebraska in need of a nickname, he's one of the few Korean baseball players in an American sports league. His name and its pronunciation carries that heritage with it.
    Your response belies the prejudice you hope to avoid. To me Choo is just another player... I do not care if he is American, Canadian, Dominican, Cuban, Chinese or Korean.

    I think a good example for you to consider is the same name on a different person. In this case another Asian. I would be willing to bet that the majority of young girls who would love to own a Jimmy Choo original have any idea of his ethnicity ( Malaysian, by the way). When the fashion folks make numerous puns about "Choo-sing Choo" I do not believe they are being racially insensitive... Especially since Jimmy Choo has now endorsed the pun and released a line with H&M based on it.

    Concerning Jeremy Lin, the comment used was "Chink in the armor"... That is racially insensitive... If the same author has instead written an article after Jeremy was injured and could not play and the team lost... Would it also be racially insensitive if the title of that article was "Missing LINk?" ? I do not believe so.

    FYI... My last name in the real world is Meyer... Pronounced like "mire"... I loved when I learned my students had a chat page talking about my class and called it "Wallowing in the Meyer"... I have even co-opted the name for my forthcoming blog.

    Bottom line: Plays on names can be insensitive.. IF there is an intent ( or link) to deride that individual or culture. If not, it's just creative fun.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,213

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Your response belies the prejudice you hope to avoid. To me Choo is just another player... I do not care if he is American, Canadian, Dominican, Cuban, Chinese or Korean.
    And that is precisely the point. He isn't "just another player." I will grant that these things are context based, and they involve a consideration of intention. But making fun of someone's name quite often entails a fine line between "good fun" and insensitivity.

    Bottom line: Plays on names can be insensitive.. IF there is an intent ( or link) to deride that individual or culture. If not, it's just creative fun.
    I think we are agreed here. Thanks for your insights, Brisco. And thanks to everyone for putting up with my rants. If I've at least encouraged some folks to think twice about the possible ramifications of a name pun, then I've done my duty here.

    Now, back to your regular scheduled programming.
    Last edited by RedEye; 05-29-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #63
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,464

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Except Choo's name doesn't exist in a vacuum. He's not a white boy from Nebraska in need of a nickname, he's one of the few Korean baseball players in an American sports league. His name and its pronunciation carries that heritage with it.
    You can't have it both ways. Either you treat all players (people) the same, or you do not. Why is one person's heritage more important than another's?

  5. Likes:

    Hubba (06-08-2013)

  6. #64
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,213

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    You can't have it both ways. Either you treat all players (people) the same, or you do not. Why is one person's heritage more important than another's?
    Both ways? It's not an either-or proposition, so I reject that premise. It's not about "importance." It's about power. It's about who is a minority and who is a majority, who is empowered and who is disempowered by mainstream society.

    European-American culture is the dominant in America, despite a sprinkle of welcome representation for other groups in popular culture and elsewhere. As a white, Scotch-Irish, Franco-English mutt, I don't need an extra boost of confidence or a reminder about who or what I stand for -- my cultural heritage is everywhere, as are various and diverse representations of "me". This is not so for those populations that are just establishing themselves here, or that have been historically oppressed or marginalized.

    As far as the Choo puns are concerned, I admit I'm being particularly sensitive, as I know none of the jokes here on RZ are intended in an insulting manner to his heritage. But it's not all just about intention either. For years, other ethnic slurs and insensitive language was used to refer to marginalized groups, and only after people went "all PC" (I'm using the scare quotes to indicate the language of those who taunt folks like me) did anything change. Names are inextricably linked with our heritage. They have a history, and they represent us. Even if someone isn't overtly insulted when someone mocks their name, making light of it without some reflection is potentially offensive -- especially if it is a rare name from a marginalized group.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  7. Likes:

    New Fever (06-08-2013)

  8. #65
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,873

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Over the last 30 days, Choo's line:

    .211/.403/.367/.770 3 HR, 23 BB, 6 HB, 119 PAs, 8 XBH, 15 Runs, 27Ks, 90 AB


    Still getting on base, but he really hasn't been much of a threat for the last 30 days (nearly half the season so far). Hard to find fault with Choo so far, and his on base ability at the top of the order is refreshing given years of Stubbs, Taveras and Patterson stinking up the joint, but a year from now he'll be 32 and I'm just not sure he's a guy I'd want to see the Reds throwing a lot of money at.

    Make the qualifying offer and if he takes it, you've likely got him for the last year before his decline begins. If not, we get a nice draft pick and we start the Billy Hamilton era or stopgap with some one else.
    Last edited by mth123; 06-08-2013 at 07:27 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. Likes:

    Redeyecat (07-04-2013), RedsManRick (06-08-2013)

  10. #66

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Words are words, Words only hurt if you only want them to hurt, Thinking back to the fried chicken and Tiger. I am of Hillbilly heritage and we are known to like pinto beans, if someone said that they would fix me some beans I would say bring it. Some people look for things to be offended about. The old adage "sticks and stones" still holds true for me today. Now if you call me Fred with the intent to hurt me that is a different story. PS I like fried Chicken and watermelon too .
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  11. #67
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,213

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    I know I've said a lot of other stuff on this thread. But, for the record, I really hope the answer to the thread title is "TODAY!"

  12. #68
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,271

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Over the last 30 days, Choo's line:

    .211/.403/.367/.770 3 HR, 23 BB, 6 HB, 119 PAs, 8 XBH, 15 Runs, 27Ks, 90 AB


    Still getting on base, but he really hasn't been much of a threat for the last 30 days (nearly half the season so far). Hard to find fault with Choo so far, and his on base ability at the top of the order is refreshing given years of Stubbs, Taveras and Patterson stinking up the joint, but a year from now he'll be 32 and I'm just not sure he's a guy I'd want to see the Reds throwing a lot of money at.

    Make the qualifying offer and if he takes it, you've likely got him for the last year before his decline begins. If not, we get a nice draft pick and we start the Billy Hamilton era or stopgap with some one else.
    Without knowing any financial specifics (i.e. Choo asking for less money than we think in a long deal or the Reds magically able to throw money around now), this is my general take too. I love Choo's game, and I'd love to have him around for a while, but the risk of paying big money for a mid 30s player who might decline is tough to swallow.

    The Reds have built a very nice foundation for winning. Part of that process, though, is knowing when to cut bait. If we have too many aging/declining players making big money, that foundation crumbles and we regress back to .500 ball. The 2013 Phillies are a perfect example of a team that I do not want the 2016 Reds to become.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  13. Likes:

    remdog (06-08-2013)

  14. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,872

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Over the last 30 days, Choo's line:

    .211/.403/.367/.770 3 HR, 23 BB, 6 HB, 119 PAs, 8 XBH, 15 Runs, 27Ks, 90 AB


    Still getting on base, but he really hasn't been much of a threat for the last 30 days (nearly half the season so far). Hard to find fault with Choo so far, and his on base ability at the top of the order is refreshing given years of Stubbs, Taveras and Patterson stinking up the joint, but a year from now he'll be 32 and I'm just not sure he's a guy I'd want to see the Reds throwing a lot of money at.

    Make the qualifying offer and if he takes it, you've likely got him for the last year before his decline begins. If not, we get a nice draft pick and we start the Billy Hamilton era or stopgap with some one else.
    Pitchers are taking away the opposite field from Choo. They seem to be pitching him tight more often. In April, he owned the left field line, slapping singles and doubles that way. No more. He also has been very poor against LHP.

    This can't be new to him, the AL managers aren't dumb. They must have tried these pitching patterns. So I don't know whY Choo is having so much trouble with it in the NL.

    I don't think his defense has been a big factor.

    Oddly, all this gives the Reds the opportunity to re-sign him, a chance they may not have had during his hot streak. It will depend on performance, dollars, years and it's too soon to tell what they would do IMO.

  15. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,066

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    RedEye; Don't you think Choo heard these same type of jokes in Cleveland? IIRC, he said he liked playing in Cleveland so I don't think it bothers him much. My guess is that it may bother you more than Choo himself.

    And, I understand that some people are sensitive about things like this so, if that's your case.---good on you.

    Rem
    "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" Learn it, love it, live it.

  16. #71
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,213

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    RedEye; Don't you think Choo heard these same type of jokes in Cleveland? IIRC, he said he liked playing in Cleveland so I don't think it bothers him much. My guess is that it may bother you more than Choo himself.

    And, I understand that some people are sensitive about things like this so, if that's your case.---good on you.

    Rem
    Thanks for the thoughtful response, Rem. I understand that Choo himself might not be sensitive to this anymore. But there are members of every minority group who laugh off insensitive jokes by the majority. Heck, some of them might be completely unphased since they've heard the jokes so many times. What other choice do they have? Easier to do that than to make an issue of it every time. It's about survival. That still doesn't make it right.

  17. #72
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,464

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Hopefully security caught these heinous racists on their way out of GABP tonight and confiscated their filthy sign. Probably wouldn't hurt if the FCC slapped a fine on FSN Ohio for putting it on the air, either.


  18. Likes:

    Crumbley (07-04-2013), kaldaniels (07-04-2013), mth123 (07-04-2013), Redeyecat (07-04-2013), Wonderful Monds (07-04-2013)

  19. #73
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,084

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Hopefully security caught these heinous racists on their way out of GABP tonight and confiscated their filthy sign. Probably wouldn't hurt if the FCC slapped a fine on FSN Ohio for putting it on the air, either.

    Which one of you guys on here is Thumbs-Up dude?

  20. #74
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,434

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Hopefully security caught these heinous racists on their way out of GABP tonight and confiscated their filthy sign. Probably wouldn't hurt if the FCC slapped a fine on FSN Ohio for putting it on the air, either.

    How is it racist? His name sounds like "chew" and he plays baseball.

    It's not funny, but racist? No.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  21. #75
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,572

    Re: When Will Shin Soo Choo Start Hitting

    Good grief, people, have a bit of a sense of humor.

    There's nothing racist about that. Puns using peoples' names are done all the time.

    Vottomatic... is that racist?

    Is it racist to say Bruce Almighty? How about people saying "Built like a Brox?"

    It's a pun. There's nothing inherently racist about that.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  22. Likes:

    reds44 (07-04-2013), remdog (07-04-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25