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Thread: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

  1. #46
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Pickles are made with cucumbers
    Pretty closeminded definition of pickles.

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  4. #47
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Actually Neanderthals were bred into extinction by the geeks that invented the wheel in their mother's cave.
    As I have Neanderthal heritage I am offended by this post!


  5. #48
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    As I have Neanderthal heritage I am offended by this post!

    With each misguided comment like this one, I am more convinced of the necessity of sports forums as a place where progress can and should be made in cultural sensitivity. Sports are one of the only places in contemporary American culture where we collectively confront ethnic difference on a mundane basis -- and where the artificial framework of talking about a team allows people to show their true colors.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    With each misguided comment like this one, I am more convinced of the necessity of sports forums as a place where progress can and should be made in cultural sensitivity. Sports are one of the only places in contemporary American culture where we collectively confront ethnic difference on a mundane basis -- and where the artificial framework of talking about a team allows people to show their true colors.
    Come on man...lighten up. It was all in good fun. It wasn't meant toward you. With the events of the last few days I thought it was funny. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but I don't think you will get that point across on a sports forum. I would say a very huge chunk of posters don't come to a sports forum to learn about cultural sensitivity. If you want to message me or something I would discuss it with ya, but I think Im done with that here. That horse has been beat down the last few days.

  7. #50
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Saw this on my facebook feed today and it made me think of this thread:

    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  8. #51
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    There isn't validity in what he is saying.

    But you're welcome to make the counterargument especially since you've concluded that those disagreeing with Wedge are closeminded.
    I thought that this was mostly a fair discussion, minus some of the snark:

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/ussmariner...-fairness-but/

    Like this quote:

    It matters what Ackley might actually think, and itís possible Ackley got too focused on walks and deep counts. Which could lead to passiveness, which could lead to pitcher aggressiveness, which could lead to fewer walks, and fewer hits. Maybe Ackley has been in between. Wedge is the guy whoís been with him all this time. Maybe Ackley has over-prioritized walks and under-prioritized hits. I donít know and canít know.
    And then this:

    Hereís the But. Maybe the other But. Letís say Wedge is right about Ackley, that heís been caught in between because he hasnít been aggressive enough. Letís say Wedge understands what Ackley has been doing wrong. What does it say that Ackley is off to Tacoma to try to get things straightened out? What does that say about the major-league coaching staff? If Ackley had the wrong ideas in his head, isnít it the big-league coachesí responsibility to address that? Why is the thinking that the guys in Tacoma are better-equipped to handle this?
    Which is addressed with a potential vaild answer:

    So maybe they decided Ackley wouldnít help the Mariners any time soon, and they didnít want to continue hurting the major-league team by keeping Ackley around and working on things. Maybe they just think Nick Franklin is better at the moment.
    Which is then completely disregarded in the conclusion:

    Some people blame the Mariners entirely for the failure of some young players to develop. Seems to me the players canít be absolved, and Ackley needs to figure his crap out. But the Mariners havenít helped. Ackley hasnít been good since August 2011, and the Mariners havenít helped. The latest attempt involves taking Ackley out of Eric Wedgeís hands. Interesting, that.
    Pretty balanced but also written with a smidge of attitude, which is completely fine since this country has freedom of speech. But this is what I mean...there is a valid point in there somewhere. Instead of the ridicule and complete disregard for what he is saying, maybe there is something to think about.

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  10. #52
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I thought that this was mostly a fair discussion, minus some of the snark:

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/ussmariner...-fairness-but/

    Like this quote:



    And then this:



    Which is addressed with a potential vaild answer:



    Which is then completely disregarded in the conclusion:



    Pretty balanced but also written with a smidge of attitude, which is completely fine since this country has freedom of speech. But this is what I mean...there is a valid point in there somewhere. Instead of the ridicule and complete disregard for what he is saying, maybe there is something to think about.
    Here's the money quote:

    Seems to me there are three possible parties at fault for the way Ackley has gone:

    Dustin Ackley
    the Mariners
    mysterious sabermetricians

    Wedge called out the last one. The first two should share the overwhelming majority of the blame. Ackley hasnít had the right approach, and the Mariners havenít been able to work with him to fix it. Wedge, in the past, has been all about taking accountability. Not in this case, though. In this case, itís the fault of the nerds. The nerds who polluted Ackleyís mind with ideas like ďdraw walksĒ and ďreach base somehow.Ē
    How again does Wedge's argument have any validity? Why are those dismissing Wedge's comments as unsupportable being closed-minded?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #53
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    "Can't you see (Sabermetrics) that you're tearing me apart"

    Insert James Dean Gif.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  12. #54
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I thought that this was mostly a fair discussion, minus some of the snark:

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/ussmariner...-fairness-but/

    Like this quote:



    And then this:



    Which is addressed with a potential vaild answer:



    Which is then completely disregarded in the conclusion:



    Pretty balanced but also written with a smidge of attitude, which is completely fine since this country has freedom of speech. But this is what I mean...there is a valid point in there somewhere. Instead of the ridicule and complete disregard for what he is saying, maybe there is something to think about.
    Booo hoo Eric Wedge vs. Sabermetrics, cry me a river.

    I know who looks foolish in this debate and certainly don't need a lesson in how to call it out on a Reds board.

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Booo hoo Eric Wedge vs. Sabermetrics, cry me a river.

    I know who looks foolish in this debate and certainly don't need a lesson in how to call it out on a Reds board.
    Sounds good.

  15. #56
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

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  17. #57
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    "One thing about living in Santa Carla I never could stomach, all the damn sabermetrics."
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    "One thing about living in Santa Carla I never could stomach, all the damn sabermetrics."
    Never invite a sabermetrician into your home... they'll move in your basement and start a blog

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  21. #59
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    Come on man...lighten up. It was all in good fun. It wasn't meant toward you. With the events of the last few days I thought it was funny. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but I don't think you will get that point across on a sports forum. I would say a very huge chunk of posters don't come to a sports forum to learn about cultural sensitivity. If you want to message me or something I would discuss it with ya, but I think Im done with that here. That horse has been beat down the last few days.
    My apologies. I don't mean it as a personal attack, and I am sure you are a sensitive person I'd love to watch a Reds game with.

    It's just that I don't have much of a sense of humor about stuff like this (shocker, i know) especially when it involves comments that trivialize the struggle of minority groups to fight against the normalization of racial bias. I would unfortunately have the same sort of beef with offhand sexist language or jokes about feminists. It's just the way I am wired.

    That said, you are right. This is a baseball forum and enough is enough. As long as another post doesn't enrage me, I promise to let this go for now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  22. #60
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Here's the money quote:



    How again does Wedge's argument have any validity? Why are those dismissing Wedge's comments as unsupportable being closed-minded?
    I guess a couple of things:

    - the author says that history has shown Wedge as being all about taking accountability. So why wouldn't he do that here?

    - the author says that Wedge is the guy who is with Ackley all the time and maybe that Ackley has done a poor job prioritizing. But, bottom line, the author says that he doesn't know and can't know. Yet he wants to assign an overwhelming amount of blame on Ackley and the Mariners generally. Interesting.

    - Wedge's approach was wrong and his words were poorly chosen. Johnny Sabermetrics didn't screw up Ackley's swing, didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to change his approach at the plate. But it is feasible that Ackely got too involved in whatever he was doing and ended up messing with his game. Dismissing that is short sighted.


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