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Thread: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

  1. #61
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I guess a couple of things:

    - the author says that history has shown Wedge as being all about taking accountability. So why wouldn't he do that here?
    I have no idea why Wedge chose to make such an absurd excuse. Well, actually having watched his tenure as the Ms manager, I have several ideas as to why. What I truly don't understand is your willingness to defend his statement as valid.

    the author says that Wedge is the guy who is with Ackley all the time and maybe that Ackley has done a poor job prioritizing. But, bottom line, the author says that he doesn't know and can't know. Yet he wants to assign an overwhelming amount of blame on Ackley and the Mariners generally. Interesting.
    If not the player and those in charge of his development, then who is to blame?

    Wedge's approach was wrong and his words were poorly chosen. Johnny Sabermetrics didn't screw up Ackley's swing, didn't hold a gun to his head and force him to change his approach at the plate. But it is feasible that Ackely got too involved in whatever he was doing and ended up messing with his game. Dismissing that is short sighted.
    So you do agree that what Wedge said was absurd and that the player and those in charge of is development are the ones to blame? If not, then it's not clear what you're arguing or which position you're arguing against.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #62
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    This reminds me of when the PTA got freaked out about Dungeons & Dragons when I was in 6th grade. All of a sudden, everything anyone in my class did wrong was a result of the "witchcraft" that we were learning from D&D in our spare time.

    I hope that analogy makes sense. If not, I've just outed myself as a former D&D fan for no reason whatsoever.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  5. #63
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    This reminds me of when the PTA got freaked out about Dungeons & Dragons when I was in 6th grade. All of a sudden, everything anyone in my class did wrong was a result of the "witchcraft" that we were learning from D&D in our spare time.

    I hope that analogy makes sense. If not, I've just outed myself as a former D&D fan for no reason whatsoever.
    I was thinking more like the rock music being the cause for violence thing.

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    So you do agree that what Wedge said was absurd and that the player and those in charge of is development are the ones to blame? If not, then it's not clear what you're arguing or which position you're arguing against.
    That's not what I said at all. His words were poorly chosen but I think it is feasible that he has a point. He isn't claiming that aliens came down and messed with his head. The guy who is closest to all of this from people I have heard from is Wedge. I'd be shocked if this is the first time it has come up within the organization with regard to Ackley.

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I was thinking more like the rock music being the cause for violence thing.
    Yeah, that's probably a better example. Anyway, pretty bizarre to hear a ML manager use that quality of argument. I mean, I know there are guys like Ozzie Guillen out there -- but that guy doesn't even make logical sense half the time. I always thought Wedge was a fairly smart manager. Then again, I haven't been paying attention to his every move. Jojo might have something to say about this.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    You guys are way off. Sabermetrics is the system for classifying and categorizing sabers. From the medieval falchion to the Patton saber adopted by the U.S. army in 1913, sabermetrics is a very useful tool in the study of sabers.
    You are correct. Sword of.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's not what I said at all. His words were poorly chosen but I think it is feasible that he has a point. He isn't claiming that aliens came down and messed with his head. The guy who is closest to all of this from people I have heard from is Wedge. I'd be shocked if this is the first time it has come up within the organization with regard to Ackley.
    So Ackley's struggles are due to people writing about sabermetrics on the Internet? There is no mistaking what he actually said.

    You really are defending Wedge's argument?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Never invite a sabermetrician into your home... they'll move in your basement and start a blog
    start at about 2:21


    Pay attention to the open sky

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    I think the dirty secret with Ackley is he was never all that great. He got overrated, drafted high, never set the minors on fire, rushed to the majors and now we find out he's got a lot of holes in his game.

    He was supposed to have an elite hit tool, but a .278 MiLB BA and .237 MLB BA make it pretty clear he doesn't. Add in that he isn't blessed with a lot of power and you've got a player that never should have been taken in the first round let alone second overall.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Anybody else think of this guy when they read this article?


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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    So Ackley's struggles are due to people writing about sabermetrics on the Internet? There is no mistaking what he actually said.

    You really are defending Wedge's argument?
    It's hard to defend something that I have zero inside info on. But I think there is a potential for some truth there, sure. The same way that some want to blame Pinella for O'Neill's "struggles" while in Cincy, or Baker/Jacoby for the Reds hitting approach when they are struggling, you think that there is zero potential that Ackley is being heavily influenced by stuff he is reading and experiencing some sort of paralysis by analysis? Coach, overbearing father, your own studies, etc all have an opportunity to influence your game. As I said before, it would be really weird and surprising (to me, minimally) if Eric Wedge pulled Sabermetrics out of thin air for no reason in this context. Especially when a Mariners blog has cited him as having a strong history of holding himself accountable for issues with the team.

  17. #72
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It's hard to defend something that I have zero inside info on. But I think there is a potential for some truth there, sure. The same way that some want to blame Pinella for O'Neill's "struggles" while in Cincy, or Baker/Jacoby for the Reds hitting approach when they are struggling, you think that there is zero potential that Ackley is being heavily influenced by stuff he is reading and experiencing some sort of paralysis by analysis? Coach, overbearing father, your own studies, etc all have an opportunity to influence your game. As I said before, it would be really weird and surprising (to me, minimally) if Eric Wedge pulled Sabermetrics out of thin air for no reason in this context. Especially when a Mariners blog has cited him as having a strong history of holding himself accountable for issues with the team.
    You're ignoring what Wedge said to argue the merits of what you wish he said and in doing so you're maininaining that Ackley would also have to missapply what saber bloggers actually wrote about him and the disconnect between Wedge's words and Akley's numbers. It's surreal. But even still it doesn't answer why saber bloggers are to blame rather than Ackley and those who are in charge of his development.

    Wedge held Internet bloggers accountable for Ackley's struggles. <<<======reread that a couple of times to let it sink in....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  18. #73
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You're ignoring what Wedge said to argue the merits of what you wish he said and in doing so you're maininaining that Ackley would also have to missapply what saber bloggers actually wrote about him and the disconnect between Wedge's words and Akley's numbers. It's surreal. But even still it doesn't answer why saber bloggers are to blame rather than Ackley and those who are in charge of his development.

    Wedge held Internet bloggers accountable for Ackley's struggles. <<<======reread that a couple of times to let it sink in....
    I didn't see the quote on Internet bloggers.

  19. #74
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Wedge had additional quotes last night

    "But you are talking about one comment, and they weren't there for the entire conversation. We were talking about the mental side of it. We were talking about Ackley. That's not the reason Ackley was having issues at home plate. What I'm talking about is this recent generation of players that has come up in the sabermetrics world. It's something that's out there and people know how important it is.
    "What you can't do is play this game with fear. You have to go out there and play, and when you get your first good pitch to take a whack at, you have to take a whack at it. People stress so much getting deeper in counts and drawing walks, it's almost a backward way of looking at it.
    http://seattletimes.com/html/mariner...rsnotes30.html

  20. #75
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    All Ackley has to fear is fear itself....and sabermetrics!
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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