M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

[jimbo]

It is almost a guarantee of a huge dispute if one sounds even a bit critical of sabremetrics in any capacity whatever

Why is that? Serious question. Being critical of sabermetrics in any form seems to generate very strong reactions from a certain group of posters, as if someone insulted their mothers. Why take it so personal?

[Raisor]

It's a straw man no one is saying anything like that. (Wedge's comment above)

[bucksfan2]

I doubt it. But is he seems to be suggesting at least one of two these things:

1) Dustin Ackley went the plate looking for deep counts & walks which came at the expense of not swinging at good pitches (or not being sufficiently prepared to do so).

2) Sabermetrics encourages players generally to do the above.

My question (and Jojo's and others') is: What is Eric Wedge's role in helping his players take the right approach? At what point does he accept some responsibility? Because at the end of the day, whether or not he has the right perception of mainstream sabermetric thought is pretty much irrelevant to this situation.

What if that is actually what is going on? The thing is we aren't privy to what is actually happening between the M's and Ackley.

[dougdirt]

Why is that? Serious question. Being critical of sabermetrics in any form seems to generate very strong reactions from a certain group of posters, as if someone insulted their mothers. Why take it so personal?

Well, it depends on what is being said. But in a lot of cases, it is simply because what is being said is completely ignorant to what sabermetrics is actually suggesting. People ramming on sabermetrics for this and that, when they don't have a clue as to what sabermetrics actually is doing.

[Sea Ray]

I doubt it. But is he seems to be suggesting at least one of two these things:

1) Dustin Ackley went the plate looking for deep counts & walks which came at the expense of not swinging at good pitches (or not being sufficiently prepared to do so).

2) Sabermetrics encourages players generally to do the above.

My question (and Jojo's and others') is: What is Eric Wedge's role in helping his players take the right approach? At what point does he accept some responsibility? Because at the end of the day, whether or not he has the right perception of mainstream sabermetric thought is pretty much irrelevant to this situation.

I don't think Eric Wedge bears much responsibility for Ackley's failures. Nor do I think he deserves credit for Michael Morse' success

[westofyou]

What if that is actually what is going on? The thing is we aren't privy to what is actually happening between the M's and Ackley.

That could be happening, but the real laugh is Wedge blaming sabermetrics for Ackley's failures.

That's pretty funny and weaker than a paper bag full of water.

Other players ruined by Sabermetrics

Ben Grieve
He Sop Choi

Both come to mind as does this quote by Bill Lange:

Batters don't follow out their natural instinct to wallop the ball, but stall around the plate in the hope of drawing a base instead of hitting the ball hard.

Bill Lange 3-14-1909

[Raisor]

Pick a good one and whack it

[Tom Servo]

Ackley went 4-5 with a HR and two walks last night in AAA. Your move, sabermetrics.

[westofyou]

Ackley went 4-5 with a HR and two walks last night in AAA. Your move, sabermetrics.

Crikey he was in Colorado and the Rainers beat the Sky Sox 25-6

TWENTY FIVE RUNS

http://www.milb.com/gameday/index.js...acaaa_cspaaa_1

[dougdirt]

Crikey he was in Colorado and the Rainers beat the Sky Sox 25-6

TWENTY FIVE RUNS

http://www.milb.com/gameday/index.js...acaaa_cspaaa_1

Have to love the PCL.....

[Raisor]

Crikey he was in Colorado and the Rainers beat the Sky Sox 25-6

TWENTY FIVE RUNS

http://www.milb.com/gameday/index.js...acaaa_cspaaa_1

Pick 25 and wack em

[lollipopcurve]

“I’m all about getting on base, but I’m about hitting, too. People have to understand: You can’t go up there looking for a walk and expect to be a big-leaguer very long. Nobody’s stayed up here by just walking. You’ve got to hit, too. You can get deep in the count all you want, but eventually you have to hit. It’s just not a black and white thing like some people think. I can’t explain it any better than that.”
Does anyone here disagree with him?

Not me.

Some guys can hit with 2 strikes better than others. Ackley appears to be someone who struggles at that point vs major league pitchers. He's not the only guy.

I think the saber community can get a little sensitive when it's impugned in any way (not the only community to do so). Especially when it comes from a manager who apparently has more influence over outcomes than the saber community generally attributes to a manager.

[RedsManRick]

Not me.

Some guys can hit with 2 strikes better than others. Ackley appears to be someone who struggles at that point vs major league pitchers. He's not the only guy.

I think the saber community can get a little sensitive when it's impugned in any way (not the only community to do so). Especially when it comes from a manager who apparently has more influence over outcomes than the saber community generally attributes to a manager.

Above all else, what the sabermetric community dislikes is being antagonistically misrepresented. He's beating a strawman; that's what bugs people.

Somewhat ironically, the sabermetric community is more willing to engage in open, honest and challenging discourse than any community I know of. What's frustrating is being told that a) you think you know it all (when no sabermetrician would make anything close to that claim) and b) that you don't know much of anything because you stopped playing in little league.

Sure, nobody likes to be put in their place. But it helps when it's an accurate critique.

As for your last comment, Wedge himself seems to be suggesting the opposite.

[jojo]

I think Wedge understands what's going on. He recently explained his comments here:



Does anyone here disagree with him?

Ackley's approach isn't fairly characterized as going up there looking for a walk.

[lollipopcurve]

Ackley's approach isn't fairly characterized as going up there looking for a walk.

Is it fair to say, in a general sense, he needs to be more aggressive?