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Thread: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

  1. #121
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Verducci tells the whole story, and not the twitterific snippets that were reported on what Wedge had to say about Ackley's struggles:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb...1_a6&eref=sihp
    That falls into TV's current baby (Passive + K upswing = boring baseball) It's his followup song to (Pitchers yearly increased workload + youth = inning limit necessity)

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  3. #122
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That falls into TV's current baby (Passive + K upswing = boring baseball) It's his followup song to (Pitchers yearly increased workload + youth = inning limit necessity)
    I read the article and thought immediately of Stubbs, who seemingly always took a fastball down the middle for strike one, then never caught up in the count and wound up flailing at a curve out of the zone. I think Stubbs problem was pitch recognition; not sure what Ackley's is.

    At least they're not calling this "the Verducci enigma." Yet.

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  5. #123
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I read the article and thought immediately of Stubbs, who seemingly always took a fastball down the middle for strike one, then never caught up in the count and wound up flailing at a curve out of the zone. I think Stubbs problem was pitch recognition; not sure what Ackley's is.

    At least they're not calling this "the Verducci enigma." Yet.
    Verducci was trying to paint a narrative about the college game with Ackley as a poster child...but something isn't jiving with Ackley being a force as a college hitter, the college game being "played a foot off of the outside corner" and Ackley essentially conceeding the outside of the plate to major league pitchers. Why would he be so obstinate about the "lefty strike" in the majors when his successful college career was played out in an environment where the outside portion of the plate was hammered or as as Davey Johnson put it:

    "The college strike zone is about one foot outside," Nationals manager Davey Johnson said. "College pitchers throw away much more than they do in because of the bat and the strike zone. The game is played off the plate much more."
    Something is different about Ackley. And while it's a convenient narrative for Wedge to argue it's due to Ackley's "upbringing" or as Verducci rephrases, "its a sign of the times", Ackley's problem is that he flat out doesn't swing at pitches on the outter half of the plate in the majors despite an "upbringing" where he clearly thrived in an environment where punishing stuff on the outer half of the plate was where he made hay.

    No, intuitive narratives aside, the Ms screwed Ackley up and by Ms I mean something he's been instructed to do during the last 2 seasons has been woefully poor as advice/instruction goes. It's not his upbringing that's the problem...it's what has happened after he was brought up.....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  7. #124
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Verducci was trying to paint a narrative about the college game with Ackley as a poster child...but something isn't jiving with Ackley being a force as a college hitter, the college game being "played a foot off of the outside corner" and Ackley essentially conceeding the outside of the plate to major league pitchers. Why would he be so obstinate about the "lefty strike" in the majors when his successful college career was played out in an environment where the outside portion of the plate was hammered or as as Davey Johnson put it:



    Something is different about Ackley. And while it's a convenient narrative for Wedge to argue it's due to Ackley's "upbringing" or as Verducci rephrases, "its a sign of the times", Ackley's problem is that he flat out doesn't swing at pitches on the outter half of the plate in the majors despite an "upbringing" where he clearly thrived in an environment where punishing stuff on the outer half of the plate was where he made hay.

    No, intuitive narratives aside, the Ms screwed Ackley up and by Ms I mean something he's been instructed to do during the last 2 seasons has been woefully poor as advice/instruction goes. It's not his upbringing that's the problem...it's what has happened after he was brought up.....
    I'm not as familiar with the M's as you are, jojo, have they developed any good young hitters of late, or just messed up with Ackley? Because it's also possible that all the scouts just missed on him, and he isn't as good as thought. It does happen (B. Larsen).

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    I'm not as familiar with the M's as you are, jojo, have they developed any good young hitters of late, or just messed up with Ackley? Because it's also possible that all the scouts just missed on him, and he isn't as good as thought. It does happen (B. Larsen).
    I don't think they've developed a good hitter since Edgar, Arod, and Jr and frankly, neither you nor I could've messed up those bats....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I don't think they've developed a good hitter since Edgar, Arod, and Jr and frankly, neither you nor I could've messed up those bats....
    In fairness you guys had some good hitters developing in the form of Shin-Soo Choo, Asdrubal Cabrera, Adam Jones, etc.

    but then

    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    In fairness you guys had some good hitters developing in the form of Shin-Soo Choo, Asdrubal Cabrera, Adam Jones, etc.

    but then

    The Ms made sure to get rid of them though before they were infected with the Pugetticus batsuckitus bug though.... (because players like Ben Broussard, Eduardo Perez etc were immune to its effects).
    Last edited by jojo; 06-04-2013 at 05:47 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    I shudder to think about what would have happened if Bavasi had been in the Reds FO when Bedard was available... probably Votto and Cueto would be O's.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I shudder to think about what would have happened if Bavasi had been in the Reds FO when Bedard was available... probably Votto and Cueto would be O's.
    Bavasi said yes. Krivsky said no.

    Statheads reviled the balded one.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #130
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Bavasi said yes. Krivsky said no.

    Statheads reviled the balded one.
    And you got pretty angry at me for obsessively updating the Bedard rumor thread on RedsZone.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    And you got pretty angry at me for obsessively updating the Bedard rumor thread on RedsZone.
    Actually, I remained calm, cool and collected throughout the whole ordeal.

    Redszone wanted the answers? Redszone wanted answers? Redszone thought it was entitled. Redszone wanted answers? Redszone wanted the truth. Redszone couldn't handle the truth!
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  17. #132
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: M's Manager: Sabermetrics made Dustin Ackley suck

    Paging Dr. Wedge! Eric Wedge diagnosing such a thing would be like an Auto Mechanic diagnosing someone's medical condition. While a car and human body are both vessels that's about where the similarities end. In other words Wedge ya gotta know something about Sabermetrics to say it caused a players problems. And the fact you said it tells me you don't get it. My understanding of Sabermetrics isn't about being more or less passive at the plate, it's about maximizing ones potential by taking advantage of easily accessible information that is underutilized for one reason or another. But if there were someone struggling due to a misunderstanding of the philosophy it would be easier to blame it on those who want to sweep it under a rug than those who use it or the info itself.

    Getting down off my soapbox now!
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  18. #133
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Actually, I remained calm, cool and collected throughout the whole ordeal.

    Redszone wanted the answers? Redszone wanted answers? Redszone thought it was entitled. Redszone wanted answers? Redszone wanted the truth. Redszone couldn't handle the truth!
    Great movie reference. And now I will think about Jack Nicholson along with Homer Simpson every time you post. :-)
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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