Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: How close we came to being another game back

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    677

    How close we came to being another game back

    The Royals went from 1-2 down to 4-2 up in the top of the 9th last night. Then the skies opened and the game was resumed/finished around 3 am.

    If it could not have been resumed, Cardinals would have won 2-1. How? How, you ask? Apparently, there is a rule that if it's the last time the teams meet this year (if they meet again, it can be suspended & resumed) -- if it's the last time they meet, the score reverts to the end of the last full inning. That's what the crew chief said in the paper, anyway.

    It would have been criminal to give that game to the Cardinals last night. I'm sure that's why they made them stick around until 3:14 am.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,143

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    The Royals went from 1-2 down to 4-2 up in the top of the 9th last night. Then the skies opened and the game was resumed/finished around 3 am.

    If it could not have been resumed, Cardinals would have won 2-1. How? How, you ask? Apparently, there is a rule that if it's the last time the teams meet this year (if they meet again, it can be suspended & resumed) -- if it's the last time they meet, the score reverts to the end of the last full inning. That's what the crew chief said in the paper, anyway.

    It would have been criminal to give that game to the Cardinals last night. I'm sure that's why they made them stick around until 3:14 am.
    As was discussed in the Scoreboard watching thread, we believe that's an old rule. The current rule seems to indicate it would be considered a suspended game and would need to be resumed. I linked to the actual rule in that thread. It's verbose (as most rules are), but it seemed fairly clear that this reverting to the prior score doesn't seem to be on the books anymore.
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  4. #3
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,071

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    As was discussed in the Scoreboard watching thread, we believe that's an old rule. The current rule seems to indicate it would be considered a suspended game and would need to be resumed. I linked to the actual rule in that thread. It's verbose (as most rules are), but it seemed fairly clear that this reverting to the prior score doesn't seem to be on the books anymore.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...ews_kc&c_id=kc

    This article says otherwise.

    And it seems the Cards, Royals and Joe West thought otherwise too.

    So which is the new rule?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #4
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,272

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    It would've gone back to the start of the inning as far as I know.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #5
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,071

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    It would've gone back to the start of the inning as far as I know.
    If this is the case, it's easily the worst rule ever. I simply can't imagine a rule that erases selective plays in a game and keeps others. This rule makes no sense and needs to be changed immediately. And whoever is responsible for it need ps to be fired.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #6
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,447

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Classic game from the KC booth.

    Boggs came in and gave up the HR... the St Louis FANS stated howling, booing, KC cameras showed some woman waving her arms to have him ushered off the field... KC announcer says...

    They have won 23 out of the last 30 and the fans here can't stand that the game was just tied, way to go fans, way to back up your team.

    Then again in the game updates on the MLB channel the announcer gave the St Louis fans props for giving the rookie pitcher a standing O after his first inning.

    Yawnnnnnn I say.... their fans are just like everyone else's fans, a bunch of short term memory folks with a hand extended to the team saying gimmi, gimmi, gimmi

  8. Likes:

    Number_Fourteen (05-31-2013), OnBaseMachine (05-31-2013), Tom Servo (05-31-2013)

  9. #7
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,143

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Re-reading the rule with the specific reference from the article [4.12 (b)(4)], my [U]guess[U] is that the difference was that the Royals hadn't recorded an out and hence (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the inning doesn't quite show up until an out is recorded.

    Kudos to West for pushing it. Criminal is a hyperbolic word, but travesty would have fit in nicely, although, in reality, everyone faces that rule. Whew, glad they got it in.
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  10. #8
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,595

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Classic game from the KC booth.

    Boggs came in and gave up the HR... the St Louis FANS stated howling, booing, KC cameras showed some woman waving her arms to have him ushered off the field... KC announcer says...

    They have won 23 out of the last 30 and the fans here can't stand that the game was just tied, way to go fans, way to back up your team.

    Then again in the game updates on the MLB channel the announcer gave the St Louis fans props for giving the rookie pitcher a standing O after his first inning.

    Yawnnnnnn I say.... their fans are just like everyone else's fans, a bunch of short term memory folks with a hand extended to the team saying gimmi, gimmi, gimmi
    Best short term memory fans in baseball.

  11. Likes:

    757690 (05-31-2013), LexRedsFan (05-31-2013), OnBaseMachine (05-31-2013)

  12. #9
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,071

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Re-reading the rule with the specific reference from the article [4.12 (b)(4)], my [U]guess[U] is that the difference was that the Royals hadn't recorded an out and hence (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the inning doesn't quite show up until an out is recorded.

    Kudos to West for pushing it. Criminal is a hyperbolic word, but travesty would have fit in nicely, although, in reality, everyone faces that rule. Whew, glad they got it in.
    Thanks.

    So the rule is even crazier and dumber than I thought. It actually encourages a team to make an out, in order to keep their runs in the board.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #10
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,143

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Thanks.

    So the rule is even crazier and dumber than I thought. It actually encourages a team to make an out, in order to keep their runs in the board.
    Again, I'm not sure making an out is part of what triggers it or whether the team needs to have gotten through the top half of the inning, but there's something in the language that intimates that, IMO. Without an out, it's as if the inning never began, might be a way of putting, but I may be overthinking this. How's that for hedging my bet?
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  14. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    677

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Re-reading the rule with the specific reference from the article [4.12 (b)(4)], my [U]guess[U] is that the difference was that the Royals hadn't recorded an out and hence (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the inning doesn't quite show up until an out is recorded.
    Here's the specific applicable part of Rule 4.12(b). It doesn't have anything to do with an out. It doesn't say anything about an out. If the Royals took the lead in the top of the 9th and the Cards never get their chance (regardless of whether there are 0, 1, or 2 outs), the score reverts back to the end of the 8th. This is a horrible, horrible rule, I can't believe the rules were just amended to put this in.

    If such game has progressed far enough to become a regulation game,
    and one team is ahead, the team that is ahead shall be declared the winner
    (unless the game is called while an inning is in progress and before
    the inning is completed, and the visiting team has scored one or more
    runs to take the lead, and the home team has not retaken the lead, in
    which case the score upon the completion of the last full inning shall
    stand for purposes of this Rule 4.12(b)(4))

  15. #12
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,143

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Here's the specific applicable part of Rule 4.12(b). It doesn't have anything to do with an out. It doesn't say anything about an out. If the Royals took the lead in the top of the 9th and the Cards never get their chance (regardless of whether there are 0, 1, or 2 outs), the score reverts back to the end of the 8th. This is a horrible, horrible rule, I can't believe the rules were just amended to put this in.

    If such game has progressed far enough to become a regulation game,
    and one team is ahead, the team that is ahead shall be declared the winner
    (unless the game is called while an inning is in progress and before
    the inning is completed, and the visiting team has scored one or more
    runs to take the lead, and the home team has not retaken the lead, in
    which case the score upon the completion of the last full inning shall
    stand for purposes of this Rule 4.12(b)(4))
    You're right. I can't believe this hasn't come up and I do wonder why they have the rule other than to save money.
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  16. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    677

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    You're right. I can't believe this hasn't come up and I do wonder why they have the rule other than to save money.
    The intent of the rule is clear -- a team can't win if it took the lead in an inning where the other team didn't get their chance. But the application of it -- to pull the rug out from under a team that just came back in the late innings to take the lead, and give the game back to the team that imploded -- is horrible. Hopefully last night will let them see the possibilities and make them go back to old rule.

  17. #14
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,564

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Classic game from the KC booth.

    Boggs came in and gave up the HR... the St Louis FANS stated howling, booing, KC cameras showed some woman waving her arms to have him ushered off the field... KC announcer says...

    They have won 23 out of the last 30 and the fans here can't stand that the game was just tied, way to go fans, way to back up your team.

    Then again in the game updates on the MLB channel the announcer gave the St Louis fans props for giving the rookie pitcher a standing O after his first inning.

    Yawnnnnnn I say.... their fans are just like everyone else's fans, a bunch of short term memory folks with a hand extended to the team saying gimmi, gimmi, gimmi
    I'm not sure what the point is of this post but to only incite. The reason why people boo'd and why many people were questioning the move in the first place (like I did) is because Boggs has been horrible in these situations all year. It reminded Cardinals fans of the Ryan Franklin situation years ago, where management would trot a guy out there and he would continue to get lit up. Any fan base would have an adverse reaction if the same situation happened to them. In fact, if it were any other player besides Boggs who blew the game, you wouldn't see nearly the same kind of reaction.

    Plus, the Cardinals are one of only three teams in baseball who average over 40,000 fans per game. The Cardinals fans do support our team. What we don't support is moronic decisions that cost the team a winnable game, esp. when there were other options available. What we don't support is management putting guys out there in unwinnable situations.

    EDIT: The whole gimmie gimmie gimmie statement is just stupid on your part. What fan base doesn't want their team to win every game possible when they have the team to do it. I'm pretty sure when the Reds blow a winnable game, you're not standing pat and saying "boy... that's ok get them next time". I'm sure there's a level of anger and frustration on your part.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 05-31-2013 at 03:34 PM.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  18. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    677

    Re: How close we came to being another game back

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I'm not sure what the point is of this post but to only incite. The reason why people boo'd and why many people were questioning the move in the first place (like I did) is because Boggs has been horrible in these situations all year. It reminded Cardinals fans of the Ryan Franklin situation years ago, where management would trot a guy out there and he would continue to get lit up. Any fan base would have an adverse reaction if the same situation happened to them. In fact, if it were any other player besides Boggs who blew the game, you wouldn't see nearly the same kind of reaction.

    Plus, the Cardinals are one of only three teams in baseball who average over 40,000 fans per game. The Cardinals fans do support our team. What we don't support is moronic decisions that cost the team a winnable game, esp. when there were other options available. What we don't support is management putting guys out there in unwinnable situations.

    EDIT: The whole gimmie gimmie gimmie statement is just stupid on your part. What fan base doesn't want their team to win every game possible when they have the team to do it. I'm pretty sure when the Reds blow a winnable game, you're not standing pat and saying "boy... that's ok get them next time". I'm sure there's a level of anger and frustration on your part.
    I wasn't sure of the point of the KC quotes either. The Cards fans weren't booing because their best-in-baseball team lost a game. They were booing because Mitchell Boggs came out to pitch (booo) and got lit up AGAIN (boooooooo) just like everyone knew he would (boooooooooooooooooooooo).

    If the KC announcers thought the SL fans were booing a loss, they are ignoramuses.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25