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  1. #1
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Hey all,

    So I've been increasingly frustrated by the nature of many of our debates about Dusty. On one side, we have the "Dusty bashers" for whom he can do no right. They gripe about his lineups, his toothpicks, and nearly every game-level decision he makes. They question his treatment of pitchers, his shepherding of rookies and even his wristbands. On the other side, we have the "Dusty apologists," who defer to his knowledge of the game and his long career. They point to his recent success with the Reds, his past success with the Giants and Cubs, his ability to manage people, and his affable media personality as evidence that he is the right guy to run this club. Obviously, I'm caricaturing this debate some. There are a lot of people who fall in between the two poles I've suggested above. And there are some who vacillate depending on the issue.

    One thing is clear, though. Neither side has really spent a lot of time providing more evidence for Dusty's strategic mind or his tutored approach to hitting and baseball. Most of the threads of late have based debate on one or two zesty pull quotes and then dug in their arguments based on flagrant interpretations of what he might mean. What we've overlooked is that Dusty is a scholar of hitting. He's produced tapes on hitting approaches that are there for the taking. He's certainly done interviews out there beyond the controversial one-off claims he's made about "base clogging" and "hitting the ball."

    So here it is. I challenge our RZ group brain to do more research on Dusty -- to really ferret out more information on him, on his career as a player and a hitter, on his history as a manager and a thinker of baseball. I'll start with a gesture at the Dusty Baker Hitting Handbook, which is an eBook, and which I'm sure someone on here must have bought (or otherwise have access to). I'll also point you to Dusty's website, which must have some insight somewhere about what the man thinks about the larger, more abstract questions we're repeatedly throwing at him here. What does he say in there? Is it the same as what he says to the media? Does he get more specific on what he thinks about walks or bunting or stealing or batting order?

    Let the games begin!
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-01-2013 at 06:13 PM.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

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  3. #2
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    It's called hitting, not walking.
    I don't want him clogging the bases.
    Zack Cozart bats 2nd.
    Corey Patterson bats leadoff.
    Willy Taveras bats leadoff.

    case closed.

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  5. #3
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's called hitting, not walking.
    I don't want him clogging the bases.
    Zack Cozart bats 2nd.
    Corey Patterson bats leadoff.
    Willy Taveras bats leadoff.

    case closed.
    Doug, that's about as closed minded as you can get. If your assertion is that Dusty is stuck in the past and won't open himself up to the newer ways of thinking...I'd say you're guilty of a similar thing right here.

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    RedEye (06-03-2013)

  7. #4
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's called hitting, not walking.
    I don't want him clogging the bases.
    Zack Cozart bats 2nd.
    Corey Patterson bats leadoff.
    Willy Taveras bats leadoff.

    case closed.
    Well, thanks for demonstrating quite clearly one side of the debate, doug (sarcasm). It would be nice if you could provide some clearly stated evidence as to why these elements are negative. Now... anyone ready to speak up for the other side? We want substantive arguments here, not just "let's agree to disagree."
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-01-2013 at 06:51 PM.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

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    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's called hitting, not walking.
    I don't want him clogging the bases.
    Zack Cozart bats 2nd.
    Corey Patterson bats leadoff.
    Willy Taveras bats leadoff.

    case closed.
    Zach Stewart will win a cy young.

    Case reopened.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

  9. #6
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Zach Stewart will win a cy young.

    Case reopened.
    Goodness gracious. I'm starting to regret asking us to work as a group brain.

    Can we get some order here people? And some real arguments that relate TO DUSTY BAKER?
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

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  11. #7
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Goodness gracious. I'm starting to regret asking us to work as a group brain.

    Can we get some order here people? And some real arguments that relate TO DUSTY BAKER?
    LOL.. I had a feeling we wouldn't get off the first page without your plan for discussion getting derailed.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  12. #8
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Zach Stewart will win a cy young.

    Case reopened.
    LOL. You know....that hasn't been disproved yet. Just to be fair. :O)

  13. #9
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Zach Stewart will win a cy young.

    Case reopened.
    Sean Marshall is a loogy.

    Case re-closed.

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    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Sean Marshall is a loogy.

    Case re-closed.
    This year, Marshall's role is more limited.
    Probably because he's been fighting lingering shoulder problems all year, and the Reds want to limit his work.
    Marshall wasn't a LOOGY last year.

    I think so far, Dusty is handling Parra correctly.
    Since Parra came off the DL, Dusty has been placing him in positions to succeed, and it's been paying off so far.
    Parra mentioned after one recent good outing "That this is the best he's ever felt".
    I don't know if he meant physically, mentally or both..
    I would not be surprised if Parra has his best year ever in 2013.
    I'm not guaranteeing it, but it looks like the Reds are making progress with him.
    Too small of a sample to know for sure, but it's encouraging.
    Maybe we'll get a repeat of the Simon success story with Parra.

    IMO, Dusty and Price do a very good job of handling the bullpen.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #11
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    This year, Marshall's role is more limited.
    Probably because he's been fighting lingering shoulder problems all year, and the Reds want to limit his work.
    Marshall wasn't a LOOGY last year.

    I think so far, Dusty is handling Parra correctly.
    Since Parra came off the DL, Dusty has been placing him in positions to succeed, and it's been paying off so far.
    Parra mentioned after one recent good outing "That this is the best he's ever felt".
    I don't know if he meant physically, mentally or both..
    I would not be surprised if Parra has his best year ever in 2013.
    I'm not guaranteeing it, but it looks like the Reds are making progress with him.
    Too small of a sample to know for sure, but it's encouraging.
    Maybe we'll get a repeat of the Simon success story with Parra.

    IMO, Dusty and Price do a very good job of handling the bullpen.
    Tough to tell, as I am known to not be a fan of Baker the manager, but I was simply deploying the usual arguments against Dusty.

  17. #12
    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    I will go on record as saying Dusty's knowledge of the game is greater than any poster on this board. Just a hunch.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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  19. #13
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    I will go on record as saying Dusty's knowledge of the game is greater than any poster on this board. Just a hunch.
    Rubbish.

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  21. #14
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's called hitting, not walking.
    I don't want him clogging the bases.
    Zack Cozart bats 2nd.
    Corey Patterson bats leadoff.
    Willy Taveras bats leadoff.

    case closed.
    I think you could find equally egregious things about any successful manager.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  22. #15
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker's knowledge of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I think you could find equally egregious things about any successful manager.
    Most of them, absolutely. It is painful at times.


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