Cardinals (Molina) crying again

[frivolousz21]

I'll put it this way. Molina was the second best catcher in MLB in 2011 and 2012. He's the second best in MLB so far in 13. So that's 2 and a 3rd seasons of being elite at his position. That means he's been a fantastic player for almost 2 and a half seasons. Since when do we say players are HOF bound or even on the right track to being HOF bound when they don't even have 3 good seasons under their belt? Saying he's a fantastic player is fine. Putting him in the same sentence as Pudge, Bench or HOF at this point is overrating him, especially since he's 30. We may as well start Wainwright HOF talk while we're at it.

Wainwright's chance for the HOF was destoyed by him being 25 yrs old when he started a full season and so much injury time.

Wainwright's ERA+ is tied for 29th all time with 1162 IP.

Molina isn't good enough. Wainwright won't play enough/be healthy enough.

It's not the same. He is better than I thought he was or would be.

One guy has to get better and do it into his late years. The other just has to stay healthy and do what he has already done.

Neither have the time.

But Wainwright's chances are real. Yadi's are not.

[Don Cameron]

[QUOTE=CySeymour;2875335]

Sooo, you're cherry picking one season out of both players careers to determine who was better?

Brilliant.

Oh, and as far as those sixteenth seasons? Pudge's OPS+ was 97, Bench's was 98.

Well Cy... I could compare his 17th season, and then the 18 season, 19th season... but Bench was already retired and announcing for the Reds and running the Coors Distributorship....

No comments on the incredible disparity on the percentage of caught stealing throughout their careers... Huh. Interesting. I know... Bench had to throw against Lopes and Brock... I think I Rod had to throw against the greatest leadoff hitter of all time in Rickey Henderson and then he had guys like ohhh Kenny Lofton...

But, then again... Bench could not throw out base stealers from third base in the latter part of his career.

Don Cameron
Wooo hooo Doggy

[Brutus]

This is how ridiculous the whole notion of Molina getting into the HOF really is: no single batter that has played the game in the last FIVE decades+ (57 years to be exact) has gotten in with fewer than 2,000 hits. Molina is turning 31 years old in a month and has 1,096 hits.

Further, in the last 50 years, only two players: Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith have played in this era and gotten into the Hall with an OPS that is less than Molina's career .738 OPS. Both had over 2,500 hits.

The Molina-to-the-Hall discussion is a pure Cards' fan(tasy).

[CySeymour]

[QUOTE=Don Cameron;2875424]

Well Cy... I could compare his 17th season, and then the 18 season, 19th season... but Bench was already retired and announcing for the Reds and running the Coors Distributorship....

No comments on the incredible disparity on the percentage of caught stealing throughout their careers... Huh. Interesting. I know... Bench had to throw against Lopes and Brock... I think I Rod had to throw against the greatest leadoff hitter of all time in Rickey Henderson and then he had guys like ohhh Kenny Lofton...

But, then again... Bench could not throw out base stealers from third base in the latter part of his career.

Don Cameron
Wooo hooo Doggy

You tried to show that IRod was a better hitter in his 16th season then Bench, and I turned around and proved that they were essentially equal.

Saying IRod had a longer career then Bench doesn't really prove anything. IRod may have been Bench's equal behind the plate, same with Molina, same with Boone and Sundburg. But as I said before, that is where the comparison ends and Bench pulls ahead.

[jlcomo]

I'm curious if Reds fans think Votto is a HOFer.

[Salukifan2]

I'm curious if Reds fans think Votto is a HOFer.

Check out one of the "IS Votto a HOF player" threads. I think there are a couple

[RedsfaninMO]

I'm curious if Reds fans think Votto is a HOFer.

He will be. He'll probably win at least 2 more MVP's. He has a career 162 averages of 29/100/.317/.418.

I guess I missed where Molina won a MVP and Wainwright won a CY Young Award. Oh, that's right, they haven't.

[Salukifan2]

He will be. He'll probably win at least 2 more MVP's. He has a career 162 averages of 29/100/.317/.418.

I guess I missed where Molina won a MVP and Wainwright won a CY Young Award. Oh, that's right, they haven't.

Votto is turning 30 this season and he might have a thousand hits. He will have less than 600 rbi. He will have around 160 career homeruns.

He'll win at least two more MVP's? He might win 1 more MVP.

Joey votto is very good, but how many more years of this kind of production does he have? 3? Votto will have play the next 6 seasons at a higher level than he has played the last 6 to make the hall. Unless he moves to Miami, thats not going to happen

As of where he currently stands he might not hit 300 career homeruns. There is no way a first baseman, from this era, with less than 350 career bombs, 2500 hits, and 1200 rbi's makes the hall. I dont care if his OBP is .500

[George Anderson]

I'm curious if Reds fans think Votto is a HOFer.

If he retired tomorrow no.


Ask me when he retires in ten years and the answer might be different.

[Ace-king]

Sorry folks, but it looks to me like the biggest "crying" Molina's doing is with his bat and defense. Neither of which are too shabby...

[westofyou]

Votto has played a tad over 800 games, of course he's not a HOF player, I'm certain Hal Trosky was a HOF player at age 27, when he had played a similar amount of games

[TDogg]

Yadi is leading the league in hitting. Sure, I would cry (yeah right) too. Keep it up Yadi!

[Brutus]

Votto has played a tad over 800 games, of course he's not a HOF player, I'm certain Hal Trosky was a HOF player at age 27, when he had played a similar amount of games

Absolutely agree. That said, if Votto maintains this level of performance another five years or so, he'll walk into the Hall.

[Redlegs]

9.01 (d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute
for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject
such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player
while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further
action is possible in that play.

[frivolousz21]

Absolutely agree. That said, if Votto maintains this level of performance another five years or so, he'll walk into the Hall.

I don't know.

He is first baseman who currently has 143 HR, 899 Hits, and 486 RBI.

His stat line: .317 .418 .549 .967 is HOF worthy.

But even in 5 years if he managed to stay at that line. He would be under 300 HR. 1800 hits. 1000 RBI.

Pujols who is 3 years older. Has 2302 hits, 486 HR, 1471 RBI.

Pujols is obviously not the average 1B HOF. or avg HOF at all.

Using Ryan Howard who is 33 and has been decimated by injury's has 307 HR, 1152 Hits, 950 RBI, but a much worse stat line with a .906 OPS.

Prince Fielder who is the same age as Joey Votto:

272 HR, 1242 Hits, 815 RBI with a worse stat line at .929 OPS.

Lance Berkman:

364 HR, 1894 hits, 1229 RBI. With a .947 career OPS.



I doubt Votto has any shot of the HOF.