"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
But if the Reds don't have Johnny Bench and they have Bill Plummer instead then maybe they don't sweep the Yankees and then Bench doesn't win the WS MVP award and then the BRM doesn't go down as one of the greatest teams of all time. Then there is no statue of him outside GABP.
It hasta make ya think doesn't it?
"Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard
Which is why WAR is an absolutely worthless stat.
Have "we" gotten the attention "we" desire yet?
Google "greatest catchers of all time". Of course a troll already knows this. I might lean towards ignorance.
RedFanAlways1966
Calling out Trolls/Ignorance
foxfire123 (06-06-2013),George Anderson (06-06-2013)
Phillips said what every major league baseball player, coach, manager, GM, media person, and fan that does not play for the Cardinals, work for the Cardinals, cover the Cardinals or support the Cardinals..........knows to be true. He just had the guts to say out loud what 99% of the league knows about the Cardinals, that they are whiny babies.
foxfire123 (06-06-2013)
foxfire123 (06-06-2013),Vottomatic (06-06-2013)
Ok. That makes sense. I am a troll because I offer an educated and informed opinion that Ivan Rodriguez was better than Bench and I get accused of trolling. Bench was a great catcher, but as a former Division 1 catcher that saw BOTH of them play, I would take IRod, and I have stats that back it up.
I do believe Molina has a shot at the Hall of Fame. I know, Oh my God... how can someone in Cincinnati not loathe Molina? The dude plays his butt off. His game is focused on one thing, and that is winning. I would take Molina in a heartbeat over ANY current catcher to be on my team. He is coming into his own as an offensive asset. But he does need a few more stat years to get there.
As far as Munson goes.... his 1976 year was a great year. And if you really believe Bench's campaign in 1976 compared nearly equal to Munson, then... well, I question a person,'s ability to really offer an honest assessment of talent.
Don Cameron
A true champion
RBA (06-06-2013)
I tend to question any statistical argument you make on the basis of your contribution to this thread but really, evoking Molina and Bench as possible equivalencies suggests serious flaws in player assessment. One can quibble about the differences in defensive abilities between Bench and Pudge as both were superb. But if Pudge's defensive tool was better, the difference wasn't dramatic. Bench however was a better offensive player and that's before one even contemplates normalizing for era and environment which makes the differences between the two even greater.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
RBA (06-06-2013)
Hoping to change my username to 75769023
RBA (06-06-2013)
Is Brian McCann HOF bound?
McCann doesn't have 5 consecutive gold gloves. McCann doesn't have 2 rings. McCann doesn't have a game winning HR in game 7 of an LCS. McCann hasn't been the most feared arm behind the plate since 2005.
Offense comes second to defense for catchers. That's why McCann isn't on a HOF track. McCann has also been injury prone the last couple years and he really started trending down last year with a .230 average, meanwhile Molina is trending up
Last edited by Salukifan2; 06-06-2013 at 11:58 PM.
2 Rings and a game winning HR in a LCS will amount to little in HOF voting.
If Molina retired tomorrow he wouldn't make it past the first ballot. He is a very good catcher obviously but way to many people, Reds fans included want to enshrine their favorites as immortal greats when they just don't stack up.
"Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard
This is true but I'm not trying to enshrine him as an immortal great. There are plenty if non-immortal greats in the HOF.
But I disagree that the rings and clutch post season play don't mean much, they build a players legend. And if he can get a third it will be huge for him because it will be "yadi's" team without AP or LaRussa
remdog (06-07-2013)
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |