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Thread: A novel concept...

  1. #46
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    When you add all the things that in the Grand scheme of things don't matter they start to matter
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  3. #47
    Stat geek...and proud
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Abolish the save stat and most of these issues would go away. There's not a more useless statistic in the game. And the very creation of it has changed the game itself, and not for the better.

  4. #48
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Wasn't this how pitchers like Goose Gossage and Rollie Fingers were used back in 70's? A lot of times they'd be brought into the game in the 7th inning to finish out a game.
    Mike Marshall 1974 says hello
    106 games 208.1 innings 2.42 ERA One Cy Young Award. 83 games finished.

    Pretty Crazy.
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  5. #49
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    7th, 8th, 9th innings. Someone gets on base and you have Ryan Braun coming up
    Could have 0 1 or 2 outs in the inning.

    Now you can keep whomever is in there in there and keep Chapman to come in clean later, or you can bring in Chapman now.
    So when does he warm up? To start the 7th every single night? When a good player is coming up soon? When someone might get on base?

    Serious question.

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    RadfordVA (06-04-2013)

  7. #50
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Despite my concerns, if the games were played by robots, I would agree with the proposed new usage of closerbot. I think roles work though with humans. I also think routine and warming up means a lot. I also think keeping your closer happy matters. I also think you would be at a lot more risk of burning out your best arm if you used him that way.

  8. #51
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Despite my concerns, if the games were played by robots, I would agree with the proposed new usage of closerbot. I think roles work though with humans. I also think routine and warming up means a lot. I also think keeping your closer happy matters. I also think you would be at a lot more risk of burning out your best arm if you used him that way.
    Why would it require a robot to perform the strategy proposed? If a human can understand he is the 9th inning guy and prepare accordingly, he can also prepare for more situational deployment. This isn't rocket science and I don't think the players' egos are that fragile.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #52
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    So, this situation only occurs in the 7th inning? The problem is that the game is on the line several times a game, at some point, someone on the bump has to get somebody out at several key points in any game. The best strategy for any bullpen is when the starter takes you deep into the game and the "high leverage" situations are minimimized and you get to maximize the opportunities for your best relievers to bring it on home. In any MLB game, part of the trick to winning a game is to get to the back end of the bullpen in some fashion. If you are successful in that endeavor, it often won't matter what inning your best reliever pitches in, because the back end will need to be used and cough it up at some point. Or, you'll have your primary arms worn out by the All-Star Break (see Pirates).
    See, this is why I have problems with people saying the closer should be used in the 7th or 8th innings because it's a "high leverage" situation. Let's say you bring him in a 1 run game, bases loaded in the 7th and he manages to get out of it unscathed. 9th inning comes around and you still have that 1 run lead. Now you've used your best reliever and you have to settle for your 2nd or 3rd best reliever. Suddenly, that "high leverage" situation in the 7th isn't quite as "high leverage" now that the 9th has rolled around. A 1 run lead in the 9th is a higher leverage situation than a 1 run lead in the 7th. And I know that 2nd or 3rd best reliever could give up the lead in the 7th but at least you gave 2-3 chances to come back from that. If you blow it in the 9th, that's it unless it's just tied.
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  10. #53
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    See, this is why I have problems with people saying the closer should be used in the 7th or 8th innings because it's a "high leverage" situation. Let's say you bring him in a 1 run game, bases loaded in the 7th and he manages to get out of it unscathed. 9th inning comes around and you still have that 1 run lead. Now you've used your best reliever and you have to settle for your 2nd or 3rd best reliever. Suddenly, that "high leverage" situation in the 7th isn't quite as "high leverage" now that the 9th has rolled around. A 1 run lead in the 9th is a higher leverage situation than a 1 run lead in the 7th. And I know that 2nd or 3rd best reliever could give up the lead in the 7th but at least you gave 2-3 chances to come back from that. If you blow it in the 9th, that's it unless it's just tied.
    If there are multiple runners on base with less than two outs and somebody from the middle of the batting order at the plate, you better believe that 7th inning situation is higher leverage...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  11. #54
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    It would be interesting to see what the reactions would be if Chapman is brought in to face Braun in a one run game in the 7th and then have Braun beat Hoover or Ondrusek in the 9th.

  12. #55
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    If there are multiple runners on base with less than two outs and somebody from the middle of the batting order at the plate, you better believe that 7th inning situation is higher leverage...
    But how do you know that? Can you predict the future?
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  13. #56
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Why would it require a robot to perform the strategy proposed? If a human can understand he is the 9th inning guy and prepare accordingly, he can also prepare for more situational deployment. This isn't rocket science and I don't think the players' egos are that fragile.
    I mostly answered that in my post that you replied to.

    How does he prepare for situational deployment? Tell us logistically how you want this to work. You want to warm him up in case a situation comes up, right? How often? When? The game isn't played in such a way that you can just pause and tell Chapman to get ready because someone just doubled.

    Regardless of how fragile closers are or aren't, it's extra variables. Will a closer struggle if told "be ready" instead of his normal routine? Will he struggle more when coming directly into runners on situations rather than a fresh start to an inning? Will the guys who are left with the back end on days the closer is already used pitch worse, better, or the same in the 9th? Will those guys do worse when their normal routine is also gone?

    I'm open to hearing solutions to the "warming up" problem, but overall I really think its very high risk with very little reward.

  14. #57
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    When you add all the thing that in the Grand scheme of things that don't matter they start to matter
    Hence why the Reds continue to have success under Baker.
    The team hasn't exactly underperformed expectations or pythag during his tenure.

    I would say time has shown the opposite to be true to your statement.

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    RadfordVA (06-04-2013)

  16. #58
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Despite my concerns, if the games were played by robots, I would agree with the proposed new usage of closerbot. I think roles work though with humans. I also think routine and warming up means a lot. I also think keeping your closer happy matters. I also think you would be at a lot more risk of burning out your best arm if you used him that way.
    Bullpen arms are notoriously fragile to begin with, so if the arm is going to get burnt out, then why not do it by using it in the best possible way?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  17. #59
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Mike Marshall 1974 says hello
    106 games 208.1 innings 2.42 ERA One Cy Young Award. 83 games finished.

    Pretty Crazy.
    Yea, and he was an outlier, a freak of nature and then tried to sell it as his super duper training regimen. Maybe he was using PEDs for his "regimen"
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  18. #60
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: A novel concept...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It would be interesting to see what the reactions would be if Chapman is brought in to face Braun in a one run game in the 7th and then have Braun beat Hoover or Ondrusek in the 9th.
    Chapman in the seventh, LeCure in the eighth, Marshall in the ninth.

    Ondrusek in Louisville.

    As for when he warms up, he should be able to warm up as an inning deteriorates. And the number of "save situations" will be about the same; you'll just be looking for them in the seventh.


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