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Thread: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

  1. #31
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    They dont have one..they just want to be the "told ya choo couldnt play CF" group
    lol what?

    I was one of the loudest supporters of acquiring Choo. Him being bad in CF has nothing to do with anybody's thoughts on where he should haev been playing.
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  3. #32
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    They dont have one..they just want to be the "told ya choo couldnt play CF" group
    That's totally inaccurate. Said "camp" has proposed several viable options, which been refuted only with meager eye test anecdotes ("I think Heisey is a tad overrated out there" or "Choo isn't really that bad" or "Did you see that one play that Robinson misplayed in LF last night?") These are not significant evidence for the "Nothing's wrong with Choo in CF" camp.

  4. #33
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    That's totally inaccurate. Said "camp" has proposed several viable options, which been refuted only with meager eye test anecdotes ("I think Heisey is a tad overrated out there" or "Choo isn't really that bad" or "Did you see that one play that Robinson misplayed in LF last night?") These are not significant evidence for the "Nothing's wrong with Choo in CF" camp.
    Said camp's only viable option is Heisey. IMO playing Heisey in CF isn't a viable option.

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  6. #34
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Dusty said in spring training that Heisey is an emergency backup in CF. His best position is LF so don't expect Heisey to play CF when he returns especially with a suspect hammy. Including spring training games, Choo has played CF in close to 100 games. He is the Reds best option in CF. Moving Choo to LF now is crazy talk.

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  8. #35
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Exactly. The idea the Bruce can play better defense than Choo is pure speculation based upon zero evidence. Robinson is a 5th OF type who probably deserves a spot start once every 5 games, not a glaring reason to start him in CF. Paul had a difficult enough time in LF catching balls. Heisey is on the DL and I have always thought his CF defense is a tad over-rated. Nice player to have, probably a tad better in the field than Choo, but there is a massive gap a the plate.

    As fans we all knew that Choo was going to have his struggles in CF. I don't think its anything out of the ordinary. In reality the only answer I see anytime this season is Hamilton in CF and Choo in LF.
    What are you talking about man? Coming into the year Jay Bruce had played more CF than Choo. I think people forget that in 2008 Bruce played 35 games in CF for the Reds, compared to Choo's 10. Im not saying it is a perfect scenario, but "IF" there is going to be a change, this is the one I would recommend. Me personally, I would leave Choo out there this year if Ludwick was going to be back and playing before the playoffs.

  9. #36
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    When the Reds acquired Choo, it was widely understood that while Cincinnati would significantly upgrade at the lead off spot, their defense would take a hit.

    I think his bat has more than compensated for his OF deficiencies, but when plays aren't made in the field, they tend to stick out.

    Now if there is a better option in CF, it would be foolish not to explore it. I'm just pointing out that the organization was aware of the possible repercussions of putting Choo in CF when they acquired him. If not for the injury to Luddy, there wouldn't be any options at all.
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  10. #37
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    What are you talking about man? Coming into the year Jay Bruce had played more CF than Choo. I think people forget that in 2008 Bruce played 35 games in CF for the Reds, compared to Choo's 10. Im not saying it is a perfect scenario, but "IF" there is going to be a change, this is the one I would recommend. Me personally, I would leave Choo out there this year if Ludwick was going to be back and playing before the playoffs.
    So Bruce's 35 games in CF in 2008 mean that in 2013 he would be an upgrade over Choo? Is that your evidence? Couple that with the disappointing season Bruce had defensively in RF last year.

    I am not saying that Choo is the idea solution. But I also think there is a legit reason why this organization decided to leave Bruce in RF. For me this organization has earned my trust. The ideal solution may be Hamilton in CF a little earlier than we had hoped. Other than that I just don't see a solution that is much better.

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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    But I also think there is a legit reason why this organization decided to leave Bruce in RF.
    Bruce will be the Reds RF for the foreseeable future. No need to do anything that might mess with success.

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  13. #39
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    My thoughts:

    - Choo is bad in CF
    - Paul would be horrendous (he's awful in LF)
    - Robinson is clearly the best CF'er on this team
    - Heisey would be better than Choo, but I don't care for them messing with Choo going back and forth.
    - Maybe Ludwick doesn't get healthy, Hamilton has a great showing in September and they decide to get risky by keeping him on the post season roster (grant it we make it), and he plays CF while Choo plays LF

  14. #40
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Also, what is the specific play you guys are talking about from last night?

  15. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Said camp's only viable option is Heisey. IMO playing Heisey in CF isn't a viable option.
    Except for the other two options I listed are also potentially more viable than Choo. Bruce came up as a CF and has played there; heisey is good there when healthy; Robinson looks worth a try at least.I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on except, well, your opinion.
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Except for the other two options I listed are also potentially more viable than Choo. Bruce came up as a CF and has played there; heisey is good there when healthy; Robinson looks worth a try at least.I have no idea what you are basing your opinion on except, well, your opinion.
    Your 3 options are Heisey, Bruce, and Robinson. Robinson is a guy who is going to play every 5th day. I don't consider that much of an option. I consider him a guy to spot Choo from time to time.

    As noted above the Reds brass decided to go with Choo over Bruce for whatever reason. I don't buy the idea that Bruce would be a substantial upgrade.

    Heisey is injured, we don't know when he is going to return, and as of right now looks to be in a platoon with Paul. So your going to bounce Choo from CF to LF and then back to CF and then back to LF because Heisey is going to play every other day?

    I just don't see any practical viable options. They look more like wants or wishes. Its not like the Reds have a true CF sitting on the bench banging down the door to get the starting gig.

  17. #43
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Your 3 options are Heisey, Bruce, and Robinson. Robinson is a guy who is going to play every 5th day. I don't consider that much of an option. I consider him a guy to spot Choo from time to time.

    As noted above the Reds brass decided to go with Choo over Bruce for whatever reason. I don't buy the idea that Bruce would be a substantial upgrade.

    Heisey is injured, we don't know when he is going to return, and as of right now looks to be in a platoon with Paul. So your going to bounce Choo from CF to LF and then back to CF and then back to LF because Heisey is going to play every other day?

    I just don't see any practical viable options. They look more like wants or wishes. Its not like the Reds have a true CF sitting on the bench banging down the door to get the starting gig.
    I agree with you that the Reds brass may not actually adopt any of the possible solutions, for whatever reason, and most likely for the sake of "roles" and continuity in the OF. But I think it's pretty clear that Bruce, Heisey and (probably) Robinson would all be better -- i.e., more "viable" -- CF than Choo going forward. In the case of both Bruce and Heisey, we have MLB level evidence that this is the case. In the case of Robinson, we have an athletic, fast fielder who looks the part and (I believe) has played there in the minors.

  18. #44
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    So Bruce's 35 games in CF in 2008 mean that in 2013 he would be an upgrade over Choo? Is that your evidence? Couple that with the disappointing season Bruce had defensively in RF last year.

    I am not saying that Choo is the idea solution. But I also think there is a legit reason why this organization decided to leave Bruce in RF. For me this organization has earned my trust. The ideal solution may be Hamilton in CF a little earlier than we had hoped. Other than that I just don't see a solution that is much better.
    Read my post earlier in this thread. I said I would rather keep Choo in CF, but if a move were to be made I would swap Bruce/Choo. Yes, the 35 games in the bigs and the many he played in the minors, I would consider it an upgrade. I am fine with the defense Choo has played, does he have moments, yes, but everyone does. Anyone remember the game Bruce cost us last year in San Fran...it happens!!!

  19. #45
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    Re: Uncle Part II: Stop the Madness in CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    How about the bullpen pitch better? The offense not blow so many scoring opportunities?

    That would solve a lot of issues.
    I totally agree, but why not try to solve all if the issues. Maybe an acquistion to the offense can help to move choo over. I'm far more concerned by the pen and lack of production by certain players, but an improvement in center would help to make the team better as well.


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