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Thread: Jon Fay.... WOW!

  1. #46
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    So often in this forum, Paul Daugherty's columns get raked over the coals. Doc's columns are the opposite of John Fay's. His stuff is nothing but opinions and usually strong ones!

    I just find it amusing that John Fay gets criticized here for not writing more like Doc, when Doc's writing is such a frequent object of ridicule.
    The thing Fay and Doc have in common, in my opinion, is that neither of them even seems to like baseball all that much. Their writing leaves me with the sense that they're just not enjoying themselves.

    So not that you asked me personally, but I don't want Fay to write more like Doc; I just want both of them to be better at it than they are.
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  4. #47
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    The thing Fay and Doc have in common, in my opinion, is that neither of them even seems to like baseball all that much. Their writing leaves me with the sense that they're just not enjoying themselves.

    So not that you asked me personally, but I don't want Fay to write more like Doc; I just want both of them to be better at it than they are.
    Doc wrote as much recently:

    If I didnt write about the Reds for a living, I would be a casual Reds watcher at best. Id go to games the way I go to movies. Fandom is in the blood. I could no more move to, say, Oakland and be an As and Raiders fan than I could hop a bus to Jupiter.

    Obviously, a vast majority of people perusing This Space bleed Red. What if you dont? Do you get weary of the Reds-saturation? Truth: So do I. I mean, they play 162 times. Each game does have its own themes, but theyre like a few pages in a 500-page novel. And yet, I usually lead with what happened the night before, offering snap judgments and disposable analysis. Taking the long view is not something were great at around here.

    This really hit home to me in the two years I did the radio. Every night, between April and September, wed discuss The Club. The most recent game determined what we thought of the team. The knees jerked incessantly. It was boring and not very smart. I have no idea how the guys doing the shows now stay engaged. There are days in This Space Id rather lead with what beer I had the night before, or how crispy the lettuce is in the garden. But I know you really arent that interested. You want to talk Reds, Reds, Reds. So we do.
    Honestly, this makes me feel like half of the posters on RedsZone would do a better job than he does. Sorry, but it's true.

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  6. #48
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Absolutely mistaken. If what you were saying were true, reporters wouldn't be getting fired constantly for making insensitive remarks on Twitter or saying something controversial.

    Fact is, every reporter is told they should act like they're on the job while on Twitter. It's a public representation of their professional persona. Their job is to act like a professional on Twitter.

    Twitter has become, for journalists, part of the job.
    People, in general, are "on the clock" 24/7 when it comes to the private conduct. If there was some special rule for reporters, you wouldn't see people getting sacked for insensitive remarks online, teachers getting fired for provocative photos being posted on Facebook, or college kids getting passed over for jobs because of their online lives.

    But there is a world of difference between being "on the clock" in terms of not being insensitive, not being a racist/bigot, not engaging in conduct unbecoming to your employer, and offering opinions or being snarky the way Fay is on twitter.

    And, the fact of the matter is this: The internet is a noisy place and there are dozens of ways to get the news you need. It's in everyone's best interest to have reporters that stand out, report news, offer snap analysis, and engage with their readers. No one likes to follow the guy who reports only headlines, links to his work, and never interacts with people. Even Peter King, demigod of NFL reporting, offers analysis / opinion, and interacts with regular fans (often sarcastically) on twitter.

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  7. #49
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    People, in general, are "on the clock" 24/7 when it comes to the private conduct. If there was some special rule for reporters, you wouldn't see people getting sacked for insensitive remarks online, teachers getting fired for provocative photos being posted on Facebook, or college kids getting passed over for jobs because of their online lives.

    But there is a world of difference between being "on the clock" in terms of not being insensitive, not being a racist/bigot, not engaging in conduct unbecoming to your employer, and offering opinions or being snarky the way Fay is on twitter.

    And, the fact of the matter is this: The internet is a noisy place and there are dozens of ways to get the news you need. It's in everyone's best interest to have reporters that stand out, report news, offer snap analysis, and engage with their readers. No one likes to follow the guy who reports only headlines, links to his work, and never interacts with people. Even Peter King, demigod of NFL reporting, offers analysis / opinion, and interacts with regular fans (often sarcastically) on twitter.

    Professionalism is an evolving ideal. The days of Perry White in the newsroom are over.
    You're making my point for me. I'm not saying reporters are a special case. I'm saying Twitter is NOT like sitting in a bar with three friends. You're still in the public eye. Therefore, you can't just give a controversial opinion willy nilly like you can sitting in a bar and having a drink among friends.

    Thus, with Social Media, you're still on the job. When you're in a bar, you're not on the job.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #50
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    You're making my point for me. I'm not saying reporters are a special case. I'm saying Twitter is NOT like sitting in a bar with three friends. You're still in the public eye. Therefore, you can't just give a controversial opinion willy nilly like you can sitting in a bar and having a drink among friends.

    Thus, with Social Media, you're still on the job. When you're in a bar, you're not on the job.
    The example of "talking to the beat writer at the bar" was just to emphasize the difference between a personal interaction with a reporter v. reading his work in the newspaper.

    Twitter is personal interactions (albeit viewable publicly) between people. Maybe the better example is a live Q&A -- no one would expect John Fay, at a live Q&A, to only report facts and offer no opinion or insight on the team. He certainly would be held to a standard of conduct, but it'd be a completely different (and much more lax) standard than he's held to in the paper when publishing.

    And, I'd argue that Fay (as a writer for a media outlet) is on the clock at the bar too -- with everyone carrying cameras around in their pocket, he'd be fired just as quickly uttering a racial slur at a bar (were it to be recorded) as would be using one on twitter.
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  9. #51
    Member wlf WV's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Doc wrote as much recently:



    Honestly, this makes me feel like half of the posters on RedsZone would do a better job than he does. Sorry, but it's true.
    He's simply stating he's human,only that he writes columns about the Reds whereas I laid stone ,brick,and you drive a truck.It's a job for him,entertainment for us.

    That's why I frown on sample sizes.I'm in it on each pitch,each play,each game.What's the use of fantasizing about the future,if it's entertainment.That's for the business end of it.I like the biscuit I'm eating and I don't worry too much about that steak in the pasture field.
    May the Lord bless

  10. #52
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    I actually think Fay does a good job. He responds to about 30% of the legit questions he get's on twitter. I think his point about Dusty (that he get's asked about 25 times a day) is that Dusty's an old school guy with a low key management style. If you expect Dusty to all of a sudden turn into Larussa or Bobby Cox and start screaming at umps or pull up stats on his I_Phone, it's just not going to happen.

  11. #53
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric from NC View Post
    I actually think Fay does a good job. He responds to about 30% of the legit questions he get's on twitter. I think his point about Dusty (that he get's asked about 25 times a day) is that Dusty's an old school guy with a low key management style. If you expect Dusty to all of a sudden turn into Larussa or Bobby Cox and start screaming at umps or pull up stats on his I_Phone, it's just not going to happen.
    No one is allowed to pull up stats on their phone during the game. MLB likes killing trees, so you can only use stuff in your notebook that is printed on paper.

  12. #54
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    John Fay struggles with grammar (which is amazing considering he's a professional WRITER) and he would sever one of his legs before he'd criticize Dusty.

    Fay has no problems criticizing Reds fans, though. You know, the people that help pay his salary (if no one is reading, those ad dollars aren't coming in). In fact, Fay comes across like a (word I can't say here) on Twitter. I know some fans can be annoying. Well, ignore them. Many times a Reds fan will have a legitimately good question and even then Fay will give some condescending answer. The guy has no personality, is a bad writer and is scared of Dusty. Other than that, I love him.
    John Fay is always snarky, even when it's a sincere question. I really didn't care for him until I heard him on the Reds Radio with Marty & Cowboy, totally different personality so I'm torn to whether he is just sarcastic on Twitter, or if he is really being rude...

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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Ditto.



    John Fay is always snarky, even when it's a sincere question. I really didn't care for him until I heard him on the Reds Radio with Marty & Cowboy, totally different personality so I'm torn to whether he is just sarcastic on Twitter, or if he is really being rude...
    I really think the Twitter persona is an act, his attempt to be funny, but he just comes off as being a jerk to people. And in doing so, he misses the opportunity to use twitter a real tool for keeping fans/readers information he is able to learn in a quick way - aka, the point of being a reporter.

  14. #56
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    I really think the Twitter persona is an act, his attempt to be funny, but he just comes off as being a jerk to people. And in doing so, he misses the opportunity to use twitter a real tool for keeping fans/readers information he is able to learn in a quick way - aka, the point of being a reporter.
    He sounds like Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post Dispatch. He's the King of Snark.
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  15. #57
    Schnickelfritz BurgervilleBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by MBZags View Post
    (apart from completely failing to understand the concept of spell checking).
    Just spellchecking? Because a Fay blog post has more proofing errors than a ladybug has dots.
    That Joey Votto is some kind of Man Candy!

    "For them to boo me like that, it lets me know they dream about me at night. -- Brandon Phillips on Cards fans.

  16. #58
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    The thing Fay and Doc have in common, in my opinion, is that neither of them even seems to like baseball all that much. Their writing leaves me with the sense that they're just not enjoying themselves
    I sense this more with Doc than Fay, but I see your point. With Doc, it seems like it's a struggle for him to write about the Reds. I'm pretty sure he recently wrote something about how little he cares about baseball on a day-to-day basis, preferring to talk about seasons as a whole, I guess.

  17. #59
    Schnickelfritz BurgervilleBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    That little "Woe Is Me" piece is just one of the many reasons I don't read any of his columns. He's a self-important hack. If he doesn't write about the Reds, fine. Let his mom or whomever read about lettuce and beer. Same goes for Fay if that's his attitude towards journalism. No thanks.

    I prefer to read Hal or C. Trent.
    That Joey Votto is some kind of Man Candy!

    "For them to boo me like that, it lets me know they dream about me at night. -- Brandon Phillips on Cards fans.

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    Re: Jon Fay.... WOW!

    I always thought Doc looked clinically depressed -now it makes more sense -he's not a Red's die-hard..... and he's depressed.


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