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Thread: What the Reds need to keep up

  1. #1
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    What the Reds need to keep up

    So, the Cards continue to play over their heads and lucked out in taking 2 of 3 in GABP. Why Dusty refused to go with Chapman for more than 1 inning is beyond me. Did you see the Cards lost at the plate against him?

    The luck comes from facing the Reds in 3 games and not having to face Bailey, Cueto or Cingrani. Latos shut them down, and if this were the NLDS, they wouldn't have seen Leake and Latos probably twice.

    I'm going to change who I think the Cards can ill afford to lose, and I think that's Wainwright. Without him, they're sunk.

    Dusty needs to make some changes. There's no reason not to move Votto, Phillips and Bruce up behind Choo and have them hitting 1-4 in the lineup. You want your best hitters to get the most AB's in a season, don't you? With Votto's OBP hitting behind Choo, the opposing pitcher gets no rest in between the two.

    Walt needs to trade for a LF. If it cost Cingrani, so be it, as long as it's the right player. Expecting Ludwick to come back after shoulder surgery isn't something he should do.

    I still don't see the Cards running away with this thing, they're due for some hard times. The rookie Lyons has nothing on his pitches, and Wacha is overhyped. Lynn throws nothing but fastballs, not sure how we didn't pound him harder.

    The Reds have too many great players being dragged down by a few that Walt should see and make changes. I think Chase Headley or Alfonso Soriano have to be targets, and maybe Jimmy Rollins.

    Like I've said before, Chapman is the difference maker on this team. Dusty needs to use him more, and he could have went one more inning last night.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    they need another lefty that can be counted on 7th inning and later.. Not having Marshall hurts. I kept saying last night how bad Marshall is missed. Ondrusek was a mess. Hoover hasnt been lights out when its needed..Most of his pitches were up last night. when you need a DP, your not throwing high!!.. Also, a big bat needs to be aquired.. I wouldnt trade Cingrani, unless its Puigg from LA..Thats not going to happen.. So offer Corcino/Lutz/and Chad Rogers for Bautista ... any other OF bats that could help? Then Brandon is back batting 2nd, with Bautista protecting Votto, and Bruce and Frazier to follow..


    Also I think Dez needs to play more or at least bat for Hanigan with the game on the line..

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Seriously? Cingrani for a LF? Dude.. chill out. It was ONE series. I would hate to see you on Wall Street. Let it play out. 162 games Bro. If you start changing roles this team gets mucked up. Robinson in the two spot was refreshing. But, that being said you would be the worst GM in the history of sports. They lost this series because the Cardinals are the better team right now. There is no shame in that. Let's see where the Reds stand in September and go from there.

    Don Cameron
    The World's Most Fascinating Man

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    Seriously? Cingrani for a LF? Dude.. chill out. It was ONE series. I would hate to see you on Wall Street. Let it play out. 162 games Bro. If you start changing roles this team gets mucked up. Robinson in the two spot was refreshing. But, that being said you would be the worst GM in the history of sports. They lost this series because the Cardinals are the better team right now. There is no shame in that. Let's see where the Reds stand in September and go from there.

    Don Cameron
    The World's Most Fascinating Man
    I'd move cingrani, but it'd have to be for a high quality player. I see him as a guy with lots if potential but a large range in that potential. He could too out as a number two starter, but if he doesn't learn a secondary pitch he could very wel end up in the pen, so yes in the right move I'd consider letting him go.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    I wouldn't trade Cingrani. Reds could use a LHP in their starting rotation. I would trade Corcino or Hamilton for the right player though.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsfaninMO View Post
    So, the Cards continue to play over their heads and lucked out in taking 2 of 3 in GABP. Why Dusty refused to go with Chapman for more than 1 inning is beyond me. Did you see the Cards lost at the plate against him?

    The luck comes from facing the Reds in 3 games and not having to face Bailey, Cueto or Cingrani. Latos shut them down, and if this were the NLDS, they wouldn't have seen Leake and Latos probably twice.

    I'm going to change who I think the Cards can ill afford to lose, and I think that's Wainwright. Without him, they're sunk.

    Dusty needs to make some changes. There's no reason not to move Votto, Phillips and Bruce up behind Choo and have them hitting 1-4 in the lineup. You want your best hitters to get the most AB's in a season, don't you? With Votto's OBP hitting behind Choo, the opposing pitcher gets no rest in between the two.

    Walt needs to trade for a LF. If it cost Cingrani, so be it, as long as it's the right player. Expecting Ludwick to come back after shoulder surgery isn't something he should do.

    I still don't see the Cards running away with this thing, they're due for some hard times. The rookie Lyons has nothing on his pitches, and Wacha is overhyped. Lynn throws nothing but fastballs, not sure how we didn't pound him harder.

    The Reds have too many great players being dragged down by a few that Walt should see and make changes. I think Chase Headley or Alfonso Soriano have to be targets, and maybe Jimmy Rollins.

    Like I've said before, Chapman is the difference maker on this team. Dusty needs to use him more, and he could have went one more inning last night.
    There some blind devotion in there. While I can appreciate it, I can't help but feel its silly. I think we're far enough in to discount dumb luck. The Cards are a good team.

    The Reds can win by focusing on winning..... Not hoping for regression. Hope is not a viable course of action. Even if the Cards regress its not helping the Reds unless they start pulling it together and getting through some of these tougher wins.

    In general I like what you say about the moves for the Reds, except the line up Card....you have to be careful of stacking the front end too much. You want to try to have enough hitting talent at the back end to carry you to the front of the rotation. Avoid gimme innings. The Cards have done a decent enough job of that.... Reds just need to get their slumping and streaky bats to have a bit more hitting consistency.

    I think Dusty doesnt use Chapman optimally. He's a high leverage player... He can go in and get the outs. I wouldn't hesitate to put him in when there are runners on and outs needed. And he can pitch more than two. This series against The Cards included one too many strategic blunders. Come on Dusty, loosen up.

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    RedlegJake (06-11-2013)

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Question. If Chapman played the day before, AND the Reds played today(meaning its possible you'd need Chapman to close)...why would you want to pitch Chapman in 2 or innings in that game? Dusty usually gets roasted for over using his pitchers and now it seems like he's getting roasted for NOT over using his pitchers.

    I think you need to pace Chapman. You cant go using him up like that in a game in June. Dusty knows that last year in August the Cards were out front and the Reds ended up running away with it so he knows its too early to start running Chapman into the ground.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike3Called View Post
    Question. If Chapman played the day before, AND the Reds played today(meaning its possible you'd need Chapman to close)...why would you want to pitch Chapman in 2 or innings in that game? Dusty usually gets roasted for over using his pitchers and now it seems like he's getting roasted for NOT over using his pitchers.

    I think you need to pace Chapman. You cant go using him up like that in a game in June. Dusty knows that last year in August the Cards were out front and the Reds ended up running away with it so he knows its too early to start running Chapman into the ground.
    If I had choice of Chapman vs Cards or vs Cubs.... I'd pick the Cards since Chapman is the high leverage guy.

    Was a tough choice.... Cards have the deeper bullpen, it would have just delayed the inevitable. Rosie would have sat, then Mujica woulda came out....even Joe Kelly.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Since this will be Bronson's last season with the Reds and the on going injury issues around Cueto, there is no way at this point you even consider trading Cigarani. He is just to valuable. I also don't put him in the pen at this point, he needs to continue to polish his other pitches and you do that as a Starter.

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    dfs (06-11-2013)

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Since this will be Bronson's last season with the Reds and the on going injury issues around Cueto, there is no way at this point you even consider trading Cigarani. He is just to valuable. I also don't put him in the pen at this point, he needs to continue to polish his other pitches and you do that as a Starter.
    ^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^

    Cigarani is the real deal IMO, I don't think he a player to build around (Votto, Phillips) but trading him for less than 2 top end cost controlled starters would be crazy to me.

    Cueto is truly a question mark at this point, if he doesn't get his Luis Tiant delivery changed this will become a reoccurring injury for a long time.

    Arroyo is an excellent junk ball pitcher (I mean that with respect so don't blast me) and the FA market may be pretty lucrative for him because someone will think he's worth it, he's an average 3-4 MLB starter IMO but all he has to do is get 1 team to think he's a #2 and head to the bank.

    P.S. No MLB team is going to trade 2 top end cost controlled starters for him so be happy with the fruit from the farm. I am not incredibly knowledgeable about who else is in Louisville knocking on the door but I truly hope the Reds stay competitive for a good while.

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Since this will be Bronson's last season with the Reds and the on going injury issues around Cueto, there is no way at this point you even consider trading Cigarani. He is just to valuable. I also don't put him in the pen at this point, he needs to continue to polish his other pitches and you do that as a Starter.
    The only pitcher in the reds minor leagues to me that I'd say definite no trade to is Stephenson. I wouldn't be actively shopping cingrani, but if the right team came to the reds with the right deal and it involved him, I'd have to strongky consider moving him

    I totally agree with you that he needs to be working in polishing his other pitches as a starter. If Marshall's injury is an issue all year I may look into finding a lefty reliever in the market or using cingrani out of the pen for a stretch run and then put him back in the rotation next year. Assuming that the other starters remain healthy cingrani could be a nice weapon out if the pen in the plsyoffs much like lincecum was for the giants last year

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsfaninMO View Post
    The luck comes from facing the Reds in 3 games and not having to face Bailey, Cueto or Cingrani. Latos shut them down, and if this were the NLDS, they wouldn't have seen Leake and Latos probably twice.
    You say the Cardinals lucked out by not having to face Bailey, Cueto or Cingrani, but I say the Reds lucked out by not having us face Bailey who is 3-9 vs. the Cardinals in his career and you lucked out by not having to face Chris Carpenter who has, for the most part, dominated the Reds in his career.

    I would have loved to have faced Cingrani. You think Wacha is over hyped...well, I'd never heard of Cingrani until a month ago, so I would have loved to see how he handled the offense of the Cardinals. The Cardinals have the highest BA in the NL, 2nd in all of baseball. So far Cingrani has faced Miami who ranks 14th in BA, the Cubs (11th in BA) three times, the Nats who rank 13th, the Brewers who are 5th (and he only went 4 innings, giving up 2 runs against them) and the Phillies who are 9th. I don't think he can be considered a great rookie until he's faced someone in the top 5 and been successful.

    So the luck factor goes both ways.
    (Watching a couple kissing at Busch Stadium) “Well, he’s kissing her on the strikes and she’s kissing him on the balls.”---a classic "Shannonism" from Cardinals broadcaster Mike Shannon

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    Re: What the Reds need to keep up

    Fun!!!


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