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Thread: Speier as 3B coach...

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  1. #1
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    Speier as 3B coach...

    what's the consensus on how he's done? the ESPN guys seemed pretty critical Sunday night when Votto got thrown out without sliding...

  2. #2
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    He's not a third base coach. He's a bench coach filling in for Berry. It shows.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
    óBill Cosby

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  4. #3
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    He's not a third base coach. He's a bench coach filling in for Berry. It shows.
    Speier's been in baseball his entire life; it's not like it takes specialized training and therefore only certain guys qualify to be 3B coach. Plus, he was 3B coach for the Cubs under Dusty.

    The Votto incident (you could see the surprise on Votto's face when he was tagged out) was the only time I have noticed any problems at all with the 3B coach this year. Yep, he should have been more demonstrative in getting Votto to slide away from the tag.

    Didn't Berry get criticism for having too many guys thrown out at the plate in the past? Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly or not.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Speier's been in baseball his entire life; it's not like it takes specialized training and therefore only certain guys qualify to be 3B coach. Plus, he was 3B coach for the Cubs under Dusty.

    The Votto incident (you could see the surprise on Votto's face when he was tagged out) was the only time I have noticed any problems at all with the 3B coach this year. Yep, he should have been more demonstrative in getting Votto to slide away from the tag.

    Didn't Berry get criticism for having too many guys thrown out at the plate in the past? Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly or not.
    He was holding Votto at 2nd to begin with. As a player, if I see that my third base coach is giving me the stop sign at 2nd, you better bet I'll be sliding at third if I run through that sign. No question. Period.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    In Spiers defense, he signalled Votto to stay at 2B.

    When Votto came anyway, I suspect he didn't want Votto to do anything stupid that might land him on the DL.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    In Spiers defense, he signalled Votto to stay at 2B.

    When Votto came anyway, I suspect he didn't want Votto to do anything stupid that might land him on the DL.
    Did he or did he just tell him he could come into 3rd standing up? More often than not even the slowest runner is going to go from 1st to 3rd on a ball hit to RF with 2 outs. Votto's not exactly Corky Miller as far as foot speed goes. Personally, I believe Speier screwed up. I also think Votto got deked by the 3rd baseman. But that happens and I'm not going to kill a guy for making a mistake or two.
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    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    When Votto came anyway, I suspect he didn't want Votto to do anything stupid that might land him on the DL.
    Like slide? I thought of that too, but he had plenty of time to signal for him to slide.

    Plus, Votto seemed to be practicing sliding even when it was unnecessary.

    I think it was a screw-up by Chris. But I like him as the 3B coach.
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    I think Speier has been rough at 3rd...but also think Berry is the best I've seen. Berry is always in position, angles the runners properly, and has seemed to make the right send/stay calls.

    There are a lot of unique skills to being a 3B coach that I didn't realize until I was in a position to learn a lot about it a few years ago.

    Positioning is probably the biggest key. On Bruce's 2B, he couldn't find Speier because he was way too far down the line and may have cost him a base as Bruce was looking to go to 3rd. The send/stay decisions seem fine, though I believe he's been run through a couple times. I think he could be a bit more decisive or demonstrative when holding or sending guys. Running the bases is not the same as staring at someone while sitting still, and I feel a few guys have had trouble seeing his calls (this is much more speculative than the others though, so dismiss if necessary).

  12. #9
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    3rd base coaches, like a lot of umpires and managers, never get noticed for anything good that they do. Only when someone gets thrown out. We never acknowledge them for all the people that are safe at 3rd or home.

    Funny how that works. And not calling anyone out for it, b/c it is true for most of us. Obviously some are better than others. Just the nature of the beast with that job.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    We never acknowledge them for all the people that are safe at 3rd or home.
    Just 34 minutes before your post, someone was giving a lot of credit to a 3B coach.

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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    It does seem that part of the game has not been great this year. Besides the Sunday night incident, I remember another incident at home where the runner was not given the slide call. Some of the blame at home plate error goes to the ondeck guy who was asleep, but it's my understanding that a good third base coach runs down the line with the runner to give him a heads up. This is technically illegal, but the umpires never do anything about a third base coach that runs down the line 2/3 of the way home. On the other hand, coaching third is like anything else it is a bit of skill and really can't do much now. Hopefully, Mr. Berry will be up to coaching in the second half of the season.

  15. #12
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    I think Speier's been poor as a 3B coach. He's way too conservative holding runners when he should be waving them through

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  17. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    My guess/understanding is that Votto missed/ignored the hold sign and then Speier neglected to give him a slide sign. Possibly his focus lapsed, assuming Votto would hold. Possibly he just misread the play. But I think there was shared blame there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member joshua's Avatar
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    If announcers are bringing up your third base coach during a game, for anything other than done trivia when the action is slow, that's a petty bad sign.

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    Re: Speier as 3B coach...

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    If announcers are bringing up your third base coach during a game, for anything other than done trivia when the action is slow, that's a petty bad sign.
    Exactly. And it happened twice, not just the Votto incident. And whoever said he held Votto at second, that's not true. The replay from the third base dugout angle clearly showed that Speier was waving the runner home in front of Votto and never actually gave Joey any kind of signal at all.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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