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Thread: Broxton to the DL, Villarreal back up

  1. #16
    Member Kiko's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    I was guessing it was back spasms but what is he sore from? I don't know what Broxton does in the off season as far as working out but he doesn't seem to be in the best shape and it is affecting his performance this season. Whatever it is he has been a disappointment this season. Seems like he got a nice contract and has gone soft.

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  3. #17
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko View Post
    I was guessing it was back spasms but what is he sore from? I don't know what Broxton does in the off season as far as working out but he doesn't seem to be in the best shape and it is affecting his performance this season. Whatever it is he has been a disappointment this season. Seems like he got a nice contract and has gone soft.
    Or he was already soft and shouldn't have gotten the contract he did. As others have already pointed out, what we're seeing now is the KC Broxton from last year. The CIN Broxton from then end of 2012 is looking more and more like a mirage.

  4. #18
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    I groan about the contract to Broxton too.

    But if you really think about it, the Reds bullpen was one of the best (maybe the best, can't remember?) last season. I'm sure management is as stunned as the fans right now at how poorly they are doing.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #19
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I groan about the contract to Broxton too.

    But if you really think about it, the Reds bullpen was one of the best (maybe the best, can't remember?) last season. I'm sure management is as stunned as the fans right now at how poorly they are doing.
    I feel like a lot of us could see it coming. Marshall and Chapman are the two most important pieces of the pen. Take away one of those two, and it's a hobbled group. Add in a predictable regression for Broxton, a rough patch for LeCure, some youthful ineffectiveness for Hoover, and sub in Manny Parra for Arredondo... and there you have it.

    I'm not as surprised as I am disappointed that they have fulfilled the worst case scenario. It's the worst case scenario, yes, but not entirely outlandish. And, I really do think the Marshall injury is the biggest thing. It creates a domino effect that has been hard to recover from.

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    Old school 1983 (06-14-2013)

  7. #20
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Lecure was money in the playoffs. He's just gotten away from his offspeed and breaking stuff, which is what makes him good. I have confidence that Sam will get it together.

    Broxton throws too many pitches in the same location. Drives me nuts. In fact, alot of the relievers start telegraphing their pitches by repeating the same location over and over at times. I mean, geez, mix it up.....move it around, change speeds. Don't let the hitter get the pitch timed. Don't let the hitter get a fix on where you're going to throw it, after you throw it to that location 4 times and he fouls them all off. Mix it up.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    RedEye (06-13-2013)

  9. #21
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Lecure was money in the playoffs. He's just gotten away from his offspeed and breaking stuff, which is what makes him good. I have confidence that Sam will get it together.

    Broxton throws too many pitches in the same location. Drives me nuts. In fact, alot of the relievers start telegraphing their pitches by repeating the same location over and over at times. I mean, geez, mix it up.....move it around, change speeds. Don't let the hitter get the pitch timed. Don't let the hitter get a fix on where you're going to throw it, after you throw it to that location 4 times and he fouls them all off. Mix it up.
    Yeah, I still love LeCure. Coming into this week, I honestly thought he was the third most reliable arm in the bullpen (behind Chapman and Marshall). I was really encouraged that Dusty started looking to him in the 8th -- and disappointed when he failed in his brief cameo.

    Broxton... *sigh* ... I think I've said enough already. I wasn't sold at the time of the trade, thought he was okay at the end of last season, and then really disliked the contract. I hope he finds himself again, but I'm not holding my breath.

  10. #22
    Member forfreelin04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    It's a preposition, usually indicating location.
    I know this was an attempt to be clever, but the funny thing is...location is his problem. He's often pitching from behind and I see velocity decreases.

    I'm no Jillian Michaels, but I am pretty sure the chubbier you are the less likelihood of longevity in this league...


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  11. #23
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by forfreelin04 View Post
    I'm no Jillian Michaels, but I am pretty sure the chubbier you are the less likelihood of longevity in this league...
    Unless you are CC Sabathia... or you make a deal with the devil, like Bartolo Colon.

  12. #24
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    It's worked for Todd Coffey. D'oh!
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  13. #25
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Per C Trent
    Braxton was sore, told Dusty he could go one inning.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ctrent
    I wonder what his excuse is for the rest of the season...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Benihana (06-14-2013), Vottomatic (06-13-2013)

  15. #26
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Per C Trent
    Braxton was sore, told Dusty he could go one inning.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ctrent
    Broxton, Sam, Marshall and Chapman. This year at least....these guys are brittle, cannot be used for very long or more than 2 straight games.

    What is the deal here? Was i the schedule with the WBC? Was it that difficult to get these guys ready with the extra time? I just do not understand the constant issues these guys have had this year.

  16. #27
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    If this thread is going to become a discussion on Broxton's physique, consider it closed.

    We already went there and it was a pretty depressing and pathetic discussion.

    This will be the only warning in this thread.
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    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
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    jimbo (06-16-2013)

  18. #28
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    I think its obvious he's hurting. For the most part this season his fastball has been sitting on about 90 or 91. Last year he was around 95 most of the time. If he's hurting they shouldn't use him. Put him on the DL. He's doing no one any good if he's pitching hurt. IMO, LeCure is hurting too. When he didn't pitch in a few games earlier this season they said he was "sore" too. Tells me they probably both have shoulder or elbow issues. Resting a couple may help for a short time but in the long run it catches up. Bullpen is looking real shaky right now and doesn't look good for the season going forward unless some reinforcements are brought in.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  19. #29
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    It is obviously possible Broxton regains his form and plays well the 2nd half of the season. But what if he does not? What if Broxton is the next Heath Bell and is just downright bad from here on out? What action would the reds take? He is making so much money that it is unlikely they would outright release him. What is the best action the Reds could possibly take if he is a terrible pitcher from now on?

  20. #30
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Relief pitching is highly volatile. That's why true high leverage bullpen arms are desireable.

    Broxton used to be a high leverage arm but he's not really that anymore. Last season we heard stories of continuous increases in velocity (though the data didn't show it), the prefection of a new plus pitch in just 20 innings, the morphing of him into a guy with plus/plus command etc...

    The reality is that such stories are great baseball myths arising from volatility of sample size. Broxton's walk rate has regressed from the 1.21 BB/9 of his 22 innings as a Reds last season to a level that is almost exactly his career average. His GB% is once again pushing his career average. He's basically the same guy he was in KC last year except he's traded an unsustainably low HR/9 for an unsustainably low BABIP.

    I don't think the problem is his weight per se. He's suffered the curse of the pitcher-injury. Broxton generally playing to his career averages while having a Krate 4 Ks lower per 9 than earlier in his career just isn't a high leverage bullpen arm.

    But relief pitching is volatile. If he can ride a small sample to glory like in the late summer and fall of 2012, he can theoretically ride one again in 2013. But he's no longer immune to the nicks and cuts of pitching and he doesn't have the margin for error that he had as a young Dodger.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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