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Thread: Broxton to the DL, Villarreal back up

  1. #31
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Maybe a dumb question but why can't he strike out guys anymore like he did as a Dodger, is it the lost fastball velocity? Lost movement?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #32
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Per C Trent
    Braxton was sore, told Dusty he could go one inning.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ctrent
    Thanks for the info.

    Man, this board is really harsh on the bullpen.
    Broxton has had some soreness.. Marshall has been hurt.. LeCure had a bad week or two (hopefully nothing is wrong with his health).

    But the bottom line is that these are all QUALITY relievers. Reds had the best bullpen in the majors last year (or close to it).. We have some bumps in the road this year. I know it's been frustrating (I was at the Colorado game when LeCure gave up the lead), but we need to step back and realize that we currently qualified for the playoffs, and still have a great chance to catch the Cards.

    This whole attitude of "If we don't win the world series, lead MLB in run differential, etc" = failure.. that's just not healthy. I love this team. They are a lot of fun to watch.. Some people need to try to relax and enjoy the season game by game instead of finding things to complain about. Honestly, if one can't enjoy the Walt era, I'm not sure they will ever enjoy the Reds. There's never going to be another BRM..As far as I'm concerned, I think it's fun to look at the pitching matchups ever day and know the Reds have a chance to win.. In the lost decade, 3/5 times, you'd look at the matchup and just assume the Reds had a slim chance to win the game.

    Anyhow, I thought it was admirable that Broxton volunteered to come in, despite being sore. I was half asleep by the time he came in, but let's not call him Milton because he gave up one run in a game where he was sore.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  5. #33
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Maybe a dumb question but why can't he strike out guys anymore like he did as a Dodger, is it the lost fastball velocity? Lost movement?
    In his best seasons with the Dodgers, he was throwing 96-98 mph on average.

    He's averaging under 94 this season.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #34
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I wonder what his excuse is for the rest of the season...
    Kidna curious here. In the initial broadcast the announcers said Broxton was out for the game. Then when all the relievers are are run through he tells Dusty he can go one inning. Then all of a sudden we think a pitcher being sore is going to be an excuse for the rest of the season.

    Far be it for pitchers to get sore. Far be it for pitchers to need a day off. I wonder what the Reds offense excuse was for going 8 inning without scoring a run on the Cubs bullpen?

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  8. #35
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Shocking that a guy who doesn't keep himself in shape, doesn't take his craft seriously, is having a bad year. I wonder if he worked out at all after getting the 3-year deal that I'm sure makes Walt lose sleep at night. It's OK, Walt. Even the best make mistakes.

    Broxton's LISTED weight is 310 pounds. If you believe he actually weighs that amount, I have some beautiful beachfront property for you here in Columbus. He's probably more in the 330 range. Yep, that's a guy who is taking care of his body. Considering he's had arm problems in the past and obviously doesn't stay in shape, this should come as a surprise to no one.

    Also: This bullpen absolutely cannot function properly without Sean Marshall. Let's hope he's able to get healthy and stay that way.

  9. #36
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    As Plus Plus noted earlier, let's try not to make this thread overtly about Broxton's weight. Yes, he is a big guy but it seems to me he's always been. There is probably more to the story here than his large stature.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    2013 Reds Record when I attend: 5-4
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  11. #37
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Last season I thought the pen was overrated. The numbers were great but Chapman was so superb most of the year that I felt he masked a more vulnerable pen.

    Didn't think Brox was consistently good last year. Marshall was very good once he went into setup mode, but he was NOT equally good v righties. Sam missed time, as usual, but was nails at season's end.

    Ondrusek didn't make the playoffs, Bray never rebounded from injury that well. Simon was a nice surprise but Arredondo absolutely fizzled in the second half.

    Hoover did make the post season despite being at AAA most of the year. Shows the Reds knew they needed more.

    In the off season, many who wanted Chapman to start kept saying how good the pen was without him. I never agreed that the pen was so good.

    Some of the recent pen signings were questionable. Masset for two years after a quite poor 2011. Ondrusek for two years. The jury is out on Brox, but he got closer money and was not IMO a top notch closer candidate without improvement.

    What some teams have are young, unproven, but very hard throwers who can boost a pen for a couple of years at low salary and then often burn out. Then you get new ones. Combined with some good vets, it fills a pen.

    Reds have Hoover and now Partch and maybe they can fill it out. On reflection, i would be patient with Hoover unless some better alternatives show up.

    IMO there is a real question whether a pen largely built on Sam, Brox, an injured Marshall and Parra, with Ondrusek as fill in, can go deep in the playoffs.

    I would put Cingrani in the pen around July 1 and look for a ground ball type at the deadline. I would not be shy about DLing or demoting guys who don't do well. I don't think this is a mere slump, hope I am wrong, would not be passive about this pen.

    So that is my 11,000th post.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-14-2013 at 11:40 AM.

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  13. #38
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    The bigger Q us what is wrong with the entire bullpen not named Chapman?

  14. #39
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    As Plus Plus noted earlier, let's try not to make this thread overtly about Broxton's weight. Yes, he is a big guy but it seems to me he's always been. There is probably more to the story here than his large stature.
    How can we not at least wonder if it has something to do with poor conditioning when it's a 310-pound pitcher we're talking about? Just because he got away with being overweight earlier in his career doesn't mean he can when he gets older. And I bet he didn't weigh this much when he was with the Dodgers in his early days. So, not only is he getting older, he's getting bigger. And not the right kind of "bigger."

    We can try and ignore the elephant in the room all day if we want, but it's not going anywhere. Someone please explain how I'm supposed to believe a 6-foot-4 guy who is 310 pounds takes his craft seriously. Even if he was 6-foot-10 he'd be overweight. At 6-4? It's a joke. Can't believe we're committed to this guy through 2015 at an average of $7 million/year.

  15. #40
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    How can we not at least wonder if it has something to do with poor conditioning when it's a 310-pound pitcher we're talking about? Just because he got away with being overweight earlier in his career doesn't mean he can when he gets older. And I bet he didn't weigh this much when he was with the Dodgers in his early days. So, not only is he getting older, he's getting bigger. And not the right kind of "bigger."

    We can try and ignore the elephant in the room all day if we want, but it's not going anywhere. Someone please explain how I'm supposed to believe a 6-foot-4 guy who is 310 pounds takes his craft seriously. Even if he was 6-foot-10 he'd be overweight. At 6-4? It's a joke. Can't believe we're committed to this guy through 2015 at an average of $7 million/year.
    So if you are fat you can't possibly take your craft seriously?

    Someone should tell CC Sabathia.

  16. #41
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So if you are fat you can't possibly take your craft seriously?

    Someone should tell CC Sabathia.
    Exception to the rule. (I know there are other exceptions, Doug. But let's be honest: Do you do think a 310-pound pitcher is taking his craft as seriously as he should? Don't try and "win" the argument. Give me an honest answer. If you're running a baseball team, are you cool with pitchers who are 310 pounds if you believe they could be more-effective at a lesser weight?)

  17. #42
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Exception to the rule. (I know there are other exceptions, Doug. But let's be honest: Do you do think a 310-pound pitcher is taking his craft as seriously as he should? Don't try and "win" the argument. Give me an honest answer. If you're running a baseball team, are you cool with pitchers who are 310 pounds if you believe they could be more-effective at a lesser weight?)
    Is the weight an issue with him? What issue is it causing?

    Could it be? Yeah, it could be. But I don't have a clue if it is. He pitches pretty well last season at about the same size.

  18. #43
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Is the weight an issue with him? What issue is it causing?

    Could it be? Yeah, it could be. But I don't have a clue if it is. He pitches pretty well last season at about the same size.
    Yeah, I'm not pretending as if this is 100 percent the cause of his ineffectiveness. All I'm saying is that when I see a guy go out there who looks sloppy as hell, I wonder if he's doing anything in the realm of keeping himself in the shape he needs to be in.

    We all like to laugh at John Kruk's famous quote when asked how an athlete could look like that: "I'm not an athlete; I'm a baseball player" ... but that's complete BS if you ask me. Yes, there are guys that can get away with it. But it doesn't mean they wouldn't be better baseball players if they were actually in shape. And then, unfortunately for us, there are guys like Jonathan Broxton who cannot get away it.

  19. #44
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Yeah, I'm not pretending as if this is 100 percent the cause of his ineffectiveness. All I'm saying is that when I see a guy go out there who looks sloppy as hell, I wonder if he's doing anything in the realm of keeping himself in the shape he needs to be in.

    We all like to laugh at John Kruk's famous quote when asked how an athlete could look like that: "I'm not an athlete; I'm a baseball player" ... but that's complete BS if you ask me. Yes, there are guys that can get away with it. But it doesn't mean they wouldn't be better baseball players if they were actually in shape. And then, unfortunately for us, there are guys like Jonathan Broxton who cannot get away it.
    You don't have a clue that Broxton can't get away with it though. You already said you don't know if his weight is the reason for his ineffectiveness.

    I have my own, untested suspicions on why he isn't performing (or at least hasn't to this point - it seems he may be injured now).

  20. #45
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong w/ Broxton ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You don't have a clue that Broxton can't get away with it though. You already said you don't know if his weight is the reason for his ineffectiveness.

    I have my own, untested suspicions on why he isn't performing (or at least hasn't to this point - it seems he may be injured now).
    I "don't have a clue." Nice attempt at a juvenile argument there. You're better than that (I hope).

    Proof is in the pudding with Brox.


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