what's the consensus on how he's done? the ESPN guys seemed pretty critical Sunday night when Votto got thrown out without sliding...
what's the consensus on how he's done? the ESPN guys seemed pretty critical Sunday night when Votto got thrown out without sliding...
He's not a third base coach. He's a bench coach filling in for Berry. It shows.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Red in Chicago (06-11-2013),_Sir_Charles_ (06-11-2013)
Speier's been in baseball his entire life; it's not like it takes specialized training and therefore only certain guys qualify to be 3B coach. Plus, he was 3B coach for the Cubs under Dusty.Originally Posted by 757690
The Votto incident (you could see the surprise on Votto's face when he was tagged out) was the only time I have noticed any problems at all with the 3B coach this year. Yep, he should have been more demonstrative in getting Votto to slide away from the tag.
Didn't Berry get criticism for having too many guys thrown out at the plate in the past? Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly or not.
In Spiers defense, he signalled Votto to stay at 2B.
When Votto came anyway, I suspect he didn't want Votto to do anything stupid that might land him on the DL.
Always Red (06-11-2013),coachpipe (06-11-2013)
I think Speier has been rough at 3rd...but also think Berry is the best I've seen. Berry is always in position, angles the runners properly, and has seemed to make the right send/stay calls.
There are a lot of unique skills to being a 3B coach that I didn't realize until I was in a position to learn a lot about it a few years ago.
Positioning is probably the biggest key. On Bruce's 2B, he couldn't find Speier because he was way too far down the line and may have cost him a base as Bruce was looking to go to 3rd. The send/stay decisions seem fine, though I believe he's been run through a couple times. I think he could be a bit more decisive or demonstrative when holding or sending guys. Running the bases is not the same as staring at someone while sitting still, and I feel a few guys have had trouble seeing his calls (this is much more speculative than the others though, so dismiss if necessary).
3rd base coaches, like a lot of umpires and managers, never get noticed for anything good that they do. Only when someone gets thrown out. We never acknowledge them for all the people that are safe at 3rd or home.
Funny how that works. And not calling anyone out for it, b/c it is true for most of us. Obviously some are better than others. Just the nature of the beast with that job.
I think Speier's been poor as a 3B coach. He's way too conservative holding runners when he should be waving them through
Did he or did he just tell him he could come into 3rd standing up? More often than not even the slowest runner is going to go from 1st to 3rd on a ball hit to RF with 2 outs. Votto's not exactly Corky Miller as far as foot speed goes. Personally, I believe Speier screwed up. I also think Votto got deked by the 3rd baseman. But that happens and I'm not going to kill a guy for making a mistake or two.
My guess/understanding is that Votto missed/ignored the hold sign and then Speier neglected to give him a slide sign. Possibly his focus lapsed, assuming Votto would hold. Possibly he just misread the play. But I think there was shared blame there.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Like slide? I thought of that too, but he had plenty of time to signal for him to slide.
Plus, Votto seemed to be practicing sliding even when it was unnecessary.
I think it was a screw-up by Chris. But I like him as the 3B coach.
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
If announcers are bringing up your third base coach during a game, for anything other than done trivia when the action is slow, that's a petty bad sign.
He was holding Votto at 2nd to begin with. As a player, if I see that my third base coach is giving me the stop sign at 2nd, you better bet I'll be sliding at third if I run through that sign. No question. Period.
*BaseClogger* (06-12-2013),dabvu2498 (06-11-2013),malcontent (06-12-2013)
It was a mental lapse by Votto more than Speier. Mentioned above, he was given the stop sign at 2nd and ran through it. Did he really think he was gonna cruise into 3rd standing?
My guess is this is the scenario:
Votto rounding 2nd with his head down without even checking Speier. When he finally looked up, he saw Speier's hand up for the "hold at 2nd", but Votto thought he meant "coast in standing".
If this is the case, then both get blame. Votto for not looking, then Speier for not urgently telling him to get down. Regardless of why Votto was running to 3rd, Speier's gotta get on the floor.
*I was at the game and have not seen a replay. I recall seeing Votto round the base with his head down thinking, "oh no" because Bruce hit the ball so hard and there were already 2 outs. Remember kids, don't make the last out at 3rd.
malcontent (06-12-2013),Redeyecat (06-11-2013)
Just 34 minutes before your post, someone was giving a lot of credit to a 3B coach.
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