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Thread: Reds catching question

  1. #16
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Mesoraco has a 28% CS rate. League average is 30%.
    To make sure the numbers are fairly presented, of 19 NL catchers with at least 20 games played, Mes is 12th best in CS%. So he's below average so far, but not at the very bottom.

    And of course there are wide variations in games played.

    And I agree with those who say Hanigan hasn't hit and Mes is showing signs at the plate.

    Again, I just don't know how much we can expect from Mes on this score. Glad to hear people think he has a very strong arm. If the problem is accuracy, maybe it gets improved with time.

    And I agree that Mes should catch more. I wanted him at AAA this year to hit every day. I was wrong, he's done pretty well in the bigs, but would like him to catch a bit more, like fifty/fifty.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Reds catching question

    I believe Mes always been considered a plus throwing catcher in the minors. I think he suffers a bit from being very intense or high strung. I think he will learn to settle down with a little more experience and his CS % will rise.

  4. #18
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    So have we decided now that Mes is not being held back by his ability to throw out runners? Sounds to me that what's holding him back has more to do with experience and comfort level with the pitching staff. At this point, he's looking like the stronger hitter of the two catchers, that's for sure.

  5. #19
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    Re: Reds catching question

    IIRC, Mes was drafted as a good hitting catcher who had all the defensive tools but needed reps to polish his defensive game. He seemed to concentrate on catching skills in the low minors to the detriment of his bat, but he became known more as a defensive catcher who might eventually hit well enough to stick in the show. He seemed to pick up hitting at each level about a full year after beginning that level. Anyway, he has all the tools to be a perennial all-star catcher, it's just a matter of putting it all together. More reps might help him come along quicker, but I think we're trying to win some hardware here.

    Think Homer Bailey... a truly fine wine takes time.

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  6. #20
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion View Post
    IIRC, Mes was drafted as a good hitting catcher who had all the defensive tools but needed reps to polish his defensive game. He seemed to concentrate on catching skills in the low minors to the detriment of his bat, but he became known more as a defensive catcher who might eventually hit well enough to stick in the show. He seemed to pick up hitting at each level about a full year after beginning that level. Anyway, he has all the tools to be a perennial all-star catcher, it's just a matter of putting it all together. More reps might help him come along quicker, but I think we're trying to win some hardware here.

    Think Homer Bailey... a truly fine wine takes time.
    This minor league scouting report couldn't be any more wrong.

    At no time was he ever considered "a defensive catcher who might hit well enough to stick in the show". He was always a bat first guy, even when his defense did begin to step forward.

  7. #21
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    . Only Posey seems to have arrived in the bigs as a finished product on both sides of the ball.
    I know we're not supposed to talk well of the Cardinals on this board, but there's a guy named Yadier Molina who is All-Star level with glove, arm, and bat.

  8. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    I know we're not supposed to talk well of the Cardinals on this board, but there's a guy named Yadier Molina who is All-Star level with glove, arm, and bat.
    And in his first three seasons he couldn't OPS .640.

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  10. #23
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Even if Mesoraco does suck at throwing runners out, does it really matter in this station-to-station era of baseball?

    * Not a single team in the NL is averaging over a steal per game.
    * Only two teams (SD, MIL) are averaging over one attempt per game.
    * The league average for stolen bases/game is hovering just above 0.5
    * Of the teams that above the league average for steals, only two (PIT, COL) have winning records.

    In the 1980s, it made sense to worry about whether your catcher could control the running game. In 2013, it might be the single least-important defensive skill a catcher can have.

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  12. #24
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    So have we decided now that Mes is not being held back by his ability to throw out runners? Sounds to me that what's holding him back has more to do with experience and comfort level with the pitching staff. At this point, he's looking like the stronger hitter of the two catchers, that's for sure.
    I don't think he's being "held back" at all. He's getting plenty of playing time. He's getting the opportunity to catch all the pitchers (mostly due to Hanny's injury). Neither backup catcher will pinch hit on Dusty's clubs so there's no point looking past starts for playing time. But he's getting his fair share imo.

    Between the 2, Mes is clearly the better hitter but he's far from tearing the cover off the ball so he's not forcing Dusty to play him more. Of the 2, Hanny is clearly the better defender, reciever, game-caller and better at controlling the running game. If this side of the ball was equal...the hitting would be the deciding factor on who starts the most I'd think. But it's unbalanced on offense and defense...I certainly can't fault Dusty for leaning towards the better defender at a defense-first position, can you?
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 06-15-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  13. #25
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Chuck. Over the last month Rocco has started 11 games. In those 11 games he's OPSing 824 (347/477)

    In that same time period Hanigan has started 15 games and is OPSing .566 (283/283)

    It's time. Rocco should be starting at least 60% of the time.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  15. #26
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chuck. Over the last month Rocco has started 11 games. In those 11 games he's OPSing 824 (347/477)

    In that same time period Hanigan has started 15 games and is OPSing .566 (283/283)

    It's time. Rocco should be starting at least 60% of the time.
    Depending on how you slice that it can make a huge difference. Those stats are for the last 28 days. If you want to go last month (May 15 - June 14), it is .739 Mes to .628 Hanny, with a .192 Hanny babip.

    I would agree with increasing Mes' time as he is obviously performing better at the plate. He likely has a bigger role in the direction of this franchise and, as his performance improves, he needs to see more time.

  16. #27
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chuck. Over the last month Rocco has started 11 games. In those 11 games he's OPSing 824 (347/477)

    In that same time period Hanigan has started 15 games and is OPSing .566 (283/283)

    It's time. Rocco should be starting at least 60% of the time.
    LOL. I saw this posted a few days ago and I didn't know who you were talking about. That's the first time I've seen him referred to as "Rocco". :O) Sorry. Okay, now...what you were actually TALKING about. :O)

    I'm not saying it is or it isn't time...but 11 & 15 games are what the statheads would call a "small sample size", no? When Hanny first came back from his DL stint...he was VERY good, no? He's since cooled off considerably. Yes Mesoraco is the better bat going forward. But an 11 game sample isn't enough to tell me that the time is now. Even with that 11 game bump, his season stats hardly scream "START ME!" (.254/.331/.390/.721)

    That being said, I'd be fine with them beginning to shift things into Devin's favor. I just think it's kinda silly to point to his seasons stats as to why we should. For ANY catcher...the last thing I look at is his bat. Seems to me that most posters here look at the bat FIRST...and then decide if the glove is acceptable or not. Just backwards IMO...tremendously so.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 06-15-2013 at 02:04 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  17. #28
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Chuck it would be one thing if Hanigan was even +.650 for the season. He's -130 less than that.

    Rocco is out OPSing him by 200 points for the year.

    He's on pace to create more than twice as many runs than Hanigan. (Assuming 300 pa for each)
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  18. #29
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    Speaking of catchers, anyone want Miguel Olivo back?

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_...ustration.html

  19. #30
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching question

    It'd be more an issue if running was an actual part of the game these days.

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