Interesting Dusty Quotes

[alwaysawarrior]

Aroldis pitched in the 8th inning 17 times last year. So obviously Dusty isn't frightened of the notion of throwing the guy in the 8th. Maybe there is more to it.

Aroldis didn't begin the year as the closer either so I suspect many of those were before he became "the man".
That being said I have no problem with the way Dusty used the pen yesterday.

[RedFanAlways1966]

I think I speak for everyone when I say HUH?

Rivera and Chapman are..............both..............CLOSERS.

Fuzzy math? 250 outs divided by 15 seasons = 16.6666667. (1997-2011, he was hurt last season)

Your basketball analogy is another headscratcher.

You speak for yourself. You think all shortstops should do what Tulo does, right? They are all shortstops; therefore, they are the same human. Do everything the same... get out of bed on the same side, have their toilet paper roll go the same direction, eat the same food, serve the exact same role on their repsective teams. WRONG. Life and sports are not that simplistic. If this is not clear, then you are not getting it. I am not saying AC cannot go more than one inning, but b/c Rivera does is a poor example as to why AC can. Does that clear up the confusion?

56 HRs in one year. Do not play in the following two years. 18.6 HRs/year. That is not confusing and shows why your example of a 17-year period is fuzzy math.

[edabbs44]

Aroldis didn't begin the year as the closer either so I suspect many of those were before he became "the man".
That being said I have no problem with the way Dusty used the pen yesterday.

Fair point, didn't recall that at the time of my post.

Also, those 8th inning Mariano stats do not take into acct the games where he threw the 8th in a non-save situation at home, just getting work in.

[Vottomatic]

You speak for yourself. You think all shortstops should do what Tulo does, right? They are all shortstops; therefore, they are the same human. Do everything the same... get out of bed on the same side, have their toilet paper roll go the same direction, eat the same food, serve the exact same role on their repsective teams. WRONG. Life and sports are not that simplistic. If this is not clear, then you are not getting it. I am not saying AC cannot go more than one inning, but b/c Rivera does is a poor example as to why AC can. Does that clear up the confusion?

56 HRs in one year. Do not play in the following two years. 18.6 HRs/year. That is not confusing and shows why your example of a 17-year period is fuzzy math.

Well......I have a very high IQ, graduated near the top of my high school class, had a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt, have my own company..................and your analogy still makes little sense to me.

Toilet paper? Really.

I'll bow out of this statistical part of this argument and simply say Chapman should be available in high leverage situations in the 8th inning when the setup man gets into trouble.

That is all.

[Hoosier Red]

While I agree with the general principle that Chapman should be "available" in the 8th inning, I think we can agree that he shouldn't pitch every time in the 8th inning.

He shouldn't even pitch every time the set up man has put runners on, or else you're going to end up using him far more often than 20 times per season and risk burning him out.

Yesterday LeCure had given up three hits and four hard hit balls, but he had Darwin Barney and his .208 average up.
Simply said, LeCure has to get that guy out. If it's Starlin Castro or Anthony Rizzo, sure I go to my best relief pitcher.

So if we agree that there shouldn't be an embargo on Chapman in the 8th inning, we also need to agree you can't go to him every night. As it is, Chapman's on pace for 75 games and 71 innings both of which would be at or near career highs for him.

So even in a year where he started out as a closer, as opposed to last year where he got something of a head start on appearances and innings because he wasn't the closer until May 20, Chapman's still going to be hitting the highest mark of his career in terms of innings and appearances.

If you're using Rivera as a reasonable comparable, his highest # of appearances was 74 in 2004 and he only broke 70 appearances twice.

[PuffyPig]

Well......I have a very high IQ, graduated near the top of my high school class, had a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt, have my own company.................

How high to you think you rank on the modesty chart?

Look, many posters here are undoubtedly very accomplished, but I'm not sure that suggesting you are smarter than everyone else as a way of getting your point across is very wise.

Do you really think that anyone will simply accept that because you claim to be very smart, your point is automatically correct?

If so, then you may have taken the wrong courses during your full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt.

Perhaps you should have taken Logic 100.

[RedsManRick]

So, Dusty went Broxton before Chapman why?

[RedFanAlways1966]

Well......I have a very high IQ, graduated near the top of my high school class, had a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt, have my own company..................and your analogy still makes little sense to me.

That is awesome for you. Congratulations on being so smart and successful! Not sure that has anything to do with "baseball talk", but to each his/her own. I will not share about my personal life/successes b/c frankly I do not think it has anything to do with "baseball talk" nor does anyone give a frog's fat butt.

If I ever need a loan or intelligence on something superior to my mental capabilities, I will be sure to PM for a loan or advice!

[RedTeamGo!]

Well......I have a very high IQ, graduated near the top of my high school class, had a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt, have my own company..................and your analogy still makes little sense to me.

hahahahahahaha worst.post.ever.

[Big Klu]

I read on another message board that Mariano Rivera has recorded nearly 250 outs in the 8th inning since becoming the Closer in 1997. That means he's averaged coming into the 8th inning 17 times a season.

Your math is misleading. 17 is way too high to be the average, unless you are assuming that Rivera is coming in to get just one out in the eighth inning every time. What about the appearances where he started the eighth and pitched a two-inning save?

250 / 3 = 83.3
83.3 / 15 = 5.56

So if I assume that all of his eighth-inning appearances were for three outs, then he averages 5.5 appearances a season. This means his true average is between 5.56 and 16.67. (And we haven't even mentioned variance yet, but I'm almost certain those 250 outs aren't evenly distributed.)

[Raisor]

The question isn't Chapman. The question is about the quotes from Dusty. Considers using Chapman in the 8th but doesn't want to. Considers using Chapman in the 8th but doesn't want to.

Seems like he might want to use Chapman in different situations but just can't pull the trigger. IMO he's playing not to lose and not to win.

He's as safe from being fired as any manager in the league. Play to win.

[PuffyPig]

So, Dusty went Broxton before Chapman why?

(1) He was only going to use Broxton if he absolutely had to, and only for one inning.

(2) He was only going to use Chapman for 1 inning, unless he had no choice but to use him for 2.

So, if he used Chapman first, he would have had to use him for 2 innings, as we didn't have the lead. By using Broxton for his allowed 1 inning, he might have spared Chapman the 2 inning stint and saved him for tonight for a save situation.

If the Reds had been the home team, Chapman would have pitched the 9th.

[muethibp]

I'll bow out of this statistical part of this argument and simply say Chapman should be available in high leverage situations in the 8th inning when the setup man gets into trouble.

I hear this argument a lot and I understand its surface appeal. And yet I don't fully understand what specifically Dusty is supposed to do in practice.

For example, let's say that we're playing at home and up a run; Dusty brings in Broxton to pitch the 8th; he gets an out but then hits the next batter on the foot on a 1-2 pitch and then gives up a double down the line; now it's 2nd and 3rd with one out, a left-handed batter coming to the plate. This is now a high leverage situation and it would be great if Chapman could pitch in this spot. But there's no way that Chapman would be able to be ready to come in, even assuming he started to warm up after the HBP (in my example - and the HBP was hardly a signal that the inning was coming apart). The only answer to that problem is to have Chapman throwing all the time in the bullpen but there's going to be a lot of innings where the 8th inning guy would be able to handle matters just fine and then Chapman has to cool down - getting up, getting down, getting back up is how pitchers get hurt.

All that is to say that I think some people look at these situations as if playing a video game or a fantasy league, and not giving full consideration to just how these situations work in an actual game.

And the truth of the matter is that unless the 7th and 8th inning guys figure things out, we're not going to win over the long haul. Sure, Dusty could perhaps swing the outcome of a game here or there by more aggressive use of Chapman, but to win the division and advance in the playoffs, someone needs to be able to get some people out between the starters and Chapman.

[Vottomatic]

That is awesome for you. Congratulations on being so smart and successful! Not sure that has anything to do with "baseball talk", but to each his/her own. I will not share about my personal life/successes b/c frankly I do not think it has anything to do with "baseball talk" nor does anyone give a frog's fat butt.

If I ever need a loan or intelligence on something superior to my mental capabilities, I will be sure to PM for a loan or advice!

You talked to me as if I were stupid. Just pointing out I'm not.

My resume' was tongue in cheek, but many people don't get my absurd humor.

[Vottomatic]

hahahahahahaha worst.post.ever.

It was sort of a joke. But you don't know me or my humor.

So many people on this board are consistently insulting and condescending, as if everyone in the world is stupid.