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Thread: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

  1. #16
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike3Called View Post
    They are two different things. One is apart of the other
    No, they are not different things each other.

    Yadier Molina: .351 AVG Shin-Soo Choo: .278 AVG

    Who is a better hitter?

    If you think that Molina is a better hitter than Choo, it tells the fact that you don't know anything about baseball.

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  3. #17
    Member Strike3Called's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    No, they are not different things each other.

    Yadier Molina: .351 AVG Shin-Soo Choo: .278 AVG

    Who is a better hitter?

    If you think that Molina is a better hitter than Choo, it tells the fact that you don't know anything about baseball.
    Here are a couple things I know.
    1) Before last nights game Molina and Choo both had an OPS+ of 145.
    2)Both Baseballstatmanager.com and Baseball-reference.com have definitions of a 'hit."

    Hits - H(from bbstatmanager)
    The number of times the batter hit the ball and safely reached base without error or fielder's choice. This is defined as the total number of the singles, doubles, triples and home runs
    Hit
    (from baseballreference)
    A Hit or Base Hit is when a batter reaches safely on a hit ball not due to error or fielder's choice. The 4 possible hits are single, double, triple and home run.
    I have no need to 'prove a point' so I'll let you have the last word on the subject. Im done.

  4. #18
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Qotsa04....16 posts and you already have a rep as a spoiled know it all arrogant condescending punk. You insulted several posters personally...fans in general and topped it off by being essentially wrong. Anyone who lumps their analysis into one stat is going to get it wrong. Be nicer or go away please.

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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Qotsa04....16 posts and you already have a rep as a spoiled know it all arrogant condescending punk. You insulted several posters personally...fans in general and topped it off by being essentially wrong. Anyone who lumps their analysis into one stat is going to get it wrong. Be nicer or go away please.
    You are included in the list of stupid people.

  6. #20
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    I feel like either Skip Bayless has joined the board or we are being punked. There is no way this is for real. If it is, and I can't believe it is, where are the moderators to shut this down?

  7. #21
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    You are included in the list of stupid people.
    Does the 04 in your username by any chance stand for the year you were born?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  8. #22
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    No, they are not different things each other.

    Yadier Molina: .351 AVG Shin-Soo Choo: .278 AVG

    Who is a better hitter?

    If you think that Molina is a better hitter than Choo, it tells the fact that you don't know anything about baseball.
    Why is choo a better hitter than Molina? I think choo is better at getting on base. I'm wondering what's your reasoning is.

  9. #23
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    You are included in the list of stupid people.
    Finally momma....I belong!!

  10. #24
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Why is choo a better hitter than Molina? I think choo is better at getting on base. I'm wondering what's your reasoning is.
    Although I don't want to say anything since I have received 'infraction' message for the reason of being right, I'll just say a few words.

    According to your opinion, Molina is a better hitter than even Votto. Right?

    In baseball, Hitter is not just a hitter.
    'HItter' is a person who can reach the base not only via 'Hit' but also via Walk and HBP.
    Why is Votto a great hitter? What's the differences between Votto and other hitters?
    'The ability to draw walk on the basis of the plate discipline' is one of the main differences.
    Many people don't appreciate the value of base on balls.(for example, leadoff walks causing the trouble)

    According to the glossary of FanGraphs.com, 'OBP is considered more accurate than Batting Average in measuring a player’s offensive value, since it takes into account hits and walks. A player could bat over .300, but if they don’t walk at all, they’re not helping their team as much as a .270 hitter with a .380 OBP.'

  11. #25
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    Although I don't want to say anything since I have received 'infraction' message for the reason of being right,
    To me, it's more likely you received it for " 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. "

    I'll just say a few words.

    According to your opinion, Molina is a better hitter than even Votto. Right?

    In baseball, Hitter is not just a hitter.
    'HItter' is a person who can reach the base not only via 'Hit' but also via Walk and HBP.
    Why is Votto a great hitter? What's the differences between Votto and other hitters?
    'The ability to draw walk on the basis of the plate discipline' is one of the main differences.
    Many people don't appreciate the value of base on balls.(for example, leadoff walks causing the trouble)

    According to the glossary of FanGraphs.com, 'OBP is considered more accurate than Batting Average in measuring a player’s offensive value, since it takes into account hits and walks. A player could bat over .300, but if they don’t walk at all, they’re not helping their team as much as a .270 hitter with a .380 OBP.'
    While I somewhat agree with your conclusion, your delivery method isn't really compatible with Redszone. Consider a different approach to getting your point across lest the infractions pile up to the point of removal.

    I don't really want someone who communicates this way, no matter how "right" on "my side."

    More content, less swagger, please.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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  13. #26
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    Although I don't want to say anything since I have received 'infraction' message for the reason of being right, I'll just say a few words.

    According to your opinion, Molina is a better hitter than even Votto. Right?

    In baseball, Hitter is not just a hitter.
    'HItter' is a person who can reach the base not only via 'Hit' but also via Walk and HBP.
    Why is Votto a great hitter? What's the differences between Votto and other hitters?
    'The ability to draw walk on the basis of the plate discipline' is one of the main differences.
    Many people don't appreciate the value of base on balls.(for example, leadoff walks causing the trouble)

    According to the glossary of FanGraphs.com, 'OBP is considered more accurate than Batting Average in measuring a player’s offensive value, since it takes into account hits and walks. A player could bat over .300, but if they don’t walk at all, they’re not helping their team as much as a .270 hitter with a .380 OBP.'
    You are right about OBP vs BA. No one is arguing that point. But OBP is not the sole benchmark. Yes it ranks at the top of the list BUT Slg is also vital...how much damage does a hitter produce when he swings the bat? Votto, with both great discipline and very good power is an offensive force. There IS a tipping point where lack of power and/or low BA inhibits the ability to influence games dramatically. In advanced stats a walk is worth a ton because it avoids outs but any RC formula also informs that it is worth less than a single.

    Another point is that you got infractions for the attacking and insults you passed out...not whether you were right or wrong. I guarantee it - the moderators here trip over themselves not to heavy handed but come on. Name calling and personal attacks isn't presenting an argument. It is flaming and is used when people are insecure in their actual argument.

    Since stat analysis is an evolving on going process claiming you are right and everyone else wrong is simple arrogance. Your opinion is as right as mine.

    Again OBP is perhaps the best single stat if you must be limited to one but then you will have an incomplete and often erroneous conclusion.

  14. #27
    Member Strike3Called's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    According to your opinion, Molina is a better hitter than even Votto. Right?
    Wrong, because Votto has a 151 OPS+ to Molina's 145.

  15. #28
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by qotsa04 View Post
    Although I don't want to say anything since I have received 'infraction' message for the reason of being right, I'll just say a few words.

    According to your opinion, Molina is a better hitter than even Votto. Right?

    In baseball, Hitter is not just a hitter.
    'HItter' is a person who can reach the base not only via 'Hit' but also via Walk and HBP.
    Why is Votto a great hitter? What's the differences between Votto and other hitters?
    'The ability to draw walk on the basis of the plate discipline' is one of the main differences.
    Many people don't appreciate the value of base on balls.(for example, leadoff walks causing the trouble)

    According to the glossary of FanGraphs.com, 'OBP is considered more accurate than Batting Average in measuring a player’s offensive value, since it takes into account hits and walks. A player could bat over .300, but if they don’t walk at all, they’re not helping their team as much as a .270 hitter with a .380 OBP.'
    Actually I was wanting a first hand account if what your operational definition if hitting was, so I could make more sense of your statements. I completely agree that a players offensive production is far more than his batting average. Anyone who doesn't see that at this point, seems to be taking a very narrow minded aprriach to the game.

    I'm about far more than looking at the numbers as well. I like to look at players' individual approaches and plate discipline. Honestly overall as a team, I think the reds with the exceptions of choo votto and sometimes Phillips are lacking disciplined patient hitters.

    As far as Molina v. Votto, votto is a superior offensive player. I don't even think most cardinals fans would argue that.

    As far as against left handed pitching, I agree looking at the big picture, choo gets on base at a decent clip, but certain situations in the game call for putting bat to ball and driving in runs or getting runners over. Yes OBP is highly important, but against lefties choo does not have great ability to get in base or knock runners in by physically putting the bat on the ball. So sure, he can be productive against lefties by getting on, but as far as bring productive by the hit against lefties he is deficient.

    As far as calling jake stupid, that was just not called for. He makes very good posts backed up by data and observation. He and I have not seen eye to eye in a variety of things, but I don't think we've ever resorted to calling each other names. He's a very good poster here with very informed opinions. So maybe hold off on the stupid comments.

  16. #29
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Ah..Old School...thanks for that. And if we agreed all the time we'd be very boring discussion partners

  17. #30
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    Re: Why in the world do people say that Choo doesn't hit well against lefty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    Because he doesn't hit well against lefties. Watch the games and get your nose out of the inane and absurd sabremetrics.... something created and worshipped by people that could not play the game. His swings against left handers, and his approach to left handers is different than to right handers. He does not see the ball ad effectively, and his problem against lefties seems to be that his front side is flying open to see the ball better, but his hands are dragging through to stay back and throw the ball opposite field. I am guessing he is left eye dominant and he is trying to compensate for it.

    Don Cameron
    You need to play the game to understand the game.
    Every front office in baseball has a sabermetric department. Every last one of them. But hey, they don't know what they are talking about.

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