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Thread: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

  1. #31
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Excellent post and reality check Blitz Dorsey. Between the TV ratings and the increasing attendence (which should remain solid for the rest of this contending season), it sure seems to me that ownership has to be pretty happy with the return on their investment in payroll.

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    Blitz Dorsey (06-17-2013)

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  4. #32
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    It's also important to consider that attendance is based on ticket sales and not people actually in the ballpark. As season ticket sales increase, attendance will increase because there won't be so much variance from game to game. To be more specific, series against the Marlins or Padres will already have (potentially) 20,000 tickets sold next year just for happening because of season ticket sales. That hasn't been the case for a long time.

    So, at least to me, it isn't about the city having fair-weather fans. It's about building a trusting relationship with the fanbase where individuals feel comfortable buying ticket packages upfront. The Reds' FO is doing a great job in that regard over the last handful of years.
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  5. #33
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Need to have 2M season tickets sold in the offseason to ever have a chance to threaten the 3M mark. Can't have many 18-20K clunkers with the new era 40-42K parks.

    I wonder how the dynamic ticket pricing is impacting revenues. The gate is up 8% this year, but I suspect the actual revenue increase is higher.

  6. #34
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    Need to have 2M season tickets sold in the offseason to ever have a chance to threaten the 3M mark. Can't have many 18-20K clunkers with the new era 40-42K parks.

    I wonder how the dynamic ticket pricing is impacting revenues. The gate is up 8% this year, but I suspect the actual revenue increase is higher.
    The Reds will never draw 3M.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  7. #35
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The Reds will never draw 3M.
    Math makes it difficult. When sellouts only get you 39-40K, you don't have a lot of room for error.

    I think you'll see 2.7M next season

    Although gate revenue is the most important gauge so 2.6M with higher ticket prices optimized for the biggest series with all of the premium and club seats sold is much better than 3M with much lower prices.

  8. #36
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Every club in MLB has average attendance above 18,000 but two: the Rays and Marlins.

    Florida, building stadiums and imposing leases... both paths failing with a capital F.

  9. #37
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Basically, the Reds need to find a way to get people to show up during the week. The weekends do pretty darn good.
    One thing which may be affecting the weekday draw has been the opponent. For M-Th games, so far they have hosted the Angels, Phillies, Marlins, Cubs, Braves, Indians for 2, and the Rockies. With the exception of the early Cubs series and the Indians, these are not exactly "rivalry" teams or teams that draw well on the road. Hopefully with schools out and better teams coming in, the #'s will go up even more.

  10. #38
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    So they have 10% more attendance and a 24% higher population in the metro area.

    A two hour radius is not much of an advantage. How many people are really going to get off work and spend 4 hours traveling to a ballgame in the middle of the week?

    Coors field holds a lot more people too. So when they sell out on the weekend games they get 8000 more people vs. a GABP sellout.

    If baseball was a weekend only game your idea about other cities would make sense. Yet baseball happens at 7PM on a weekday and sometimes middle of the day on a weekday. Who wants to leave work at 5 to get to the game just in time and then get home after midnight? What you need to do is look at television and radio ratings, and that is where you will see the Reds are one of the best if not the best. That is where those markets come into play. That and weekend games, where, as mentioned, the Rockies have the advantage of a bigger ballpark.
    That is an important point. Dayton is a big time Reds hub, but the reality is its difficult to get to Cincy for a 7 weekday game. Even more so with kids and/or kids who are in school. The key for the Reds and their non local draw is the amount of attendance you can get for weekend series. The logistics of getting to a evening Sat game is much easier and couple that with non having to get up to go to work the next day.

  11. #39
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    Math makes it difficult. When sellouts only get you 39-40K, you don't have a lot of room for error.

    I think you'll see 2.7M next season

    Although gate revenue is the most important gauge so 2.6M with higher ticket prices optimized for the biggest series with all of the premium and club seats sold is much better than 3M with much lower prices.
    There is not a lot of room for error in drawing 3M. You have to average 37K to get to 3M. That's selling out every weekend home game (and by selling out I mean drawing official capacity, not the sell out the Reds define by saying there are only single seats available) and averaging 32.8K for all the other home games. So those 17K games against Florida on Monday night in early May isn't going to cut it unless you get sellouts or near sellouts for some other weekend games.

    It's not like it's impossible either. Minute Maid Park, Miller Park, and Wrigley Field both have less capacity than GABP. Busch Stadium is a bit larger but not significantly and all of those teams have drawn 3M. I think WOY said that the Reds are the only team whose attendance record was set back in the 70s.

    I'll tell you the truth, it's getting a little expensive to go to games. I'm not complaining because I know they have to pay these guys but I have DirecTv at home - which I pay over $100 a month for - and I can see these games in the comfort of my own home, drink my own beer, not have to worry about parking. That's not to say I don't enjoy going to a game it's just that I have to pick and choose the games I go to and I'm not going to more than 10 a year if that much.

    I just wonder if it's going to be like the NFL where the in home experience is better than going to the game.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  12. #40
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Every club in MLB has average attendance above 18,000 but two: the Rays and Marlins.

    Florida, building stadiums and imposing leases... both paths failing with a capital F.
    Wait, I thought the Marlins were the model the Reds should follow. (the now famous redszone thread from a couple years back for those not noticing the icon)

    The winter months are a more natural fit down here with the dynamics of the population base and spring training baseball makes the product less urgent during the season. The transplant factor is huge making it much more compelling to watch on the TV than to be all-in and vested attending a game in person with an adopted team. Also contrary to popular belief many of the South America, Island and Eurpoean transplants in force down here in South Florida really don't care the least bit about baseball and have no history with the game (Haiti, Brazil, Argentina, Jamaica, UK, Germany).

    And as I've noted many times before, the locations of both stadiums in Florida are just assinine effectively turning both gates into small market, walled off cities. Miami's location and weekday traffic pattern is just not a viable option to most of the wealthier Northern Broward suburbs and all of Palm Beach Counties. And the isolated Miami area has no outer edges to draw from to make a difference on weekends. This is before the obvious ownership issues that make these other demographic and location problems seem minor.

    There really is no reason Tampa/Orlando shouldn't work with a better situated, baseball only stadium.

  13. #41
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post

    There really is no reason Tampa/Orlando shouldn't work with a better situated, baseball only stadium.
    One team would do much better in that state, they could make it more regional.. like the KC - Omaha Kings!!

  14. #42
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    One team would do much better in that state, they could make it more regional.. like the KC - Omaha Kings!!
    I would disagree. The South Florida region is completely different than the rest of the state demographically, politically and culturally and also isolated 3-4 hrs from Orlando, 4 hrs+ from Tampa (no good way to cross the state diagonally), 5 hrs from Jax and 2 hours from Naples/Ft Myers (with nothing at all in common to the Miami area). With all that, with 6M people and a top 10 market size, hard to ignore not having MLB in the International hub of Miami.

  15. #43
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Does downtown Cincinnati have much of an after-work walk-over-to-the-ballpark get-back-to-your-condo-on-a-weeknight vibe? The ballpark is kind of set off, even for being downtown.

  16. #44
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Is the streetcar deal still happening? Would make it easier to get to the park.

  17. #45
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    Re: Where do the Reds rank in attendance this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I don't understand the tone of most of the posts in this thread. If anything, attendance is greatly trending upwards for the Reds. Even compared to last year -- when we won our second NL Central title in the last three years -- attendance is far better this season. I think times have changed and the Reds will be in the upper-half of MLB attendance for a while.

    If you look at the numbers, there are a lot of teams barely above the Reds who are having bad seasons. Naturally, those teams will see their attendance fade (teams like the Twins, Blue Jays and Brewers specifically) if they find themselves out of the race, while the Reds' attendance will stay high or perhaps continue to get higher if we stay in the race as expected. We're sure to eventually surpass those teams as far as 2013 attendance. Also, there are zero teams that are currently behind us (18-30) who have a chance at passing us. We'll finish top-14 for sure.

    I like where we're at attendance-wise. It seems we've finally turned the corner this year. This will be our highest yearly attendance since ... when? Certainly a very long time. We're the second-smallest media market in MLB, in front of only Milwaukee, and we'll finish this season ranked in the top-15 in MLB in attendance. That's pretty damn good. Then you factor in our off-the-charts TV ratings to go with it and there's no doubt Reds Country is vast and is supporting this team.
    I agree with all of the above. Because it's rare to see attendance go up more than about 20% from one year to the next without adding a new stadium, Attendance is a thing where it absolutely matters what you did 5 years ago.

    I pulled attendance for each Major League team since 2000. Looking at 3 year increments, the Reds attendance was 34% higher in 2012 than it was in 2009. This placed them third in three year increase behind the Marlins(new stadium last year will drop off this year) and Texas (who had an unparallelled run of success in 2010-2011 which led to gigantic attendance gains.

    Looking at my numbers, there are only 5 teams who have increased attendance the last three years. Texas*, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Oakland.

    *Texas has actually had 4 consecutive double digit % increases since hitting a low attendance point in 2008. They've gone from under 2 million people in 2008 to almost 3.5 Million in 2012.
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