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Thread: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

  1. #331
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Or you throw the action figure in a jar of gasoline and then light it on fire and watch it melt.

    Nice images these. Not real applicable to the matter we are discussing though.
    True story: 8th grade I'm at my buddy's house, he pulls his sisters big wheel out of garage, pours gas on it and starts an inferno. Black smoke, flames just fills the neighborhood up with pollution... We stare.

    Boom his mom pulls in and eyes as big as saucers parks in front of the burning toy.

    Me?

    I rode my bike home chuckling.

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  4. #332
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Next year is always important. The best franchises strike a balance between now and later.
    The best franchises don't keep quality pitchers in the minors when ready to contribute to a tight pennant race.

    Question. 2014. Arroyo agrees to return for one year. Cheap, out of love for the franchise and city. Starting rotation remains the same as this season. No attrition, no change. Reds think Bronson still has it, for one more season.

    No room for Cingrani in the 2014 rotation. Do you (a) trade him (b) let him start at AAA or (c) put him in Reds bullpen?

  5. #333
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Just seems like the upside of Cingrani in the pen is higher than the down side. I can come with a whole boatload of big time pitchers that started in the pen and it didn't seem to destroy them.

    Maybe I'm just crazy.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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  7. #334
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Just seems like the upside of Cingrani in the pen is higher than the down side. I can come with a whole boatload of big time pitchers that started in the pen and it didn't seem to destroy them.

    Maybe I'm just crazy.
    I tried that, got my hand slapped.

    And you are crazy... LIKE A FOX!!!

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    Big Klu (06-20-2013), RedEye (06-20-2013)

  9. #335
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Next year is always important. The best franchises strike a balance between now and later.
    It's just that, some years, it's more important than others. That's what I mean. Of course, we are not the Astros right now, so the future is less important than right here and now, winning time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    It will slow his development in terms of polishing his secondary stuff. How much remains to be seen -- and we'll never know for sure. Pitching in high leverage situations in a pennant race will help him in other ways, yes, and that will be good for his growth as a pitcher. But the secondary stuff issue still pertains.
    It's just the kind of thing that we will never know unless it turns into a big stink someday if he fails hard. At that point lots of fingers would point and say it was 2013's pennant push that ruined him. Just seems like a low margin of error to argue over.

  10. #336
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The best franchises don't keep quality pitchers in the minors when ready to contribute to a tight pennant race.

    Question. 2014. Arroyo agrees to return for one year. Cheap, out of love for the franchise and city. Starting rotation remains the same as this season. No attrition, no change. Reds think Bronson still has it, for one more season.

    No room for Cingrani in the 2014 rotation. Do you (a) trade him (b) let him start at AAA or (c) put him in Reds bullpen?
    I think this is a really unlikely scenario. That said, I'll play.

    First, I think I wait until Spring Training to let things play out with the roster. Given a fair competition, I do think it's possible that Cingrani beats out Leake for a rotation spot -- especially since there aren't any other lefties in the group. If not, and the health of the group (Cueto especially) holds up, I let Cingrani prepare as a reliever with a full complement of training games to adapt to the role. At the same time, I'm talking to other clubs to see about using Leake or Cingrani as the centerpiece to acquire a young SS or LF.

    Then again, since I want Chapman to start in an ideal world. I might let Bronson walk, convert Cingrani into a shutdown closer, and move Chapman to the rotation. But that's another question, I think.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-20-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  11. #337
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    it was really sweet when he started one of those Pirate batters off with a breaking ball and the hitter totally froze with the bat on his shoulder because he was so surprised. The confidence in his secondary pitches will come faster up here, IMO.
    If he does this enough times, the smart hitters won't be surprised anymore. And if they do, then we're back to square one -- an ineffective RP with shaken confidence. Hopefully he doesn't take to Twitter when that happens.

  12. #338
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    True story: 8th grade I'm at my buddy's house, he pulls his sisters big wheel out of garage, pours gas on it and starts an inferno. Black smoke, flames just fills the neighborhood up with pollution... We stare.

    Boom his mom pulls in and eyes as big as saucers parks in front of the burning toy.

    Me?

    I rode my bike home chuckling.
    That's a terrible fate for a big wheel. I love(d) those things. Sounds pretty wicked awesome though.

  13. #339
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    True story: 8th grade I'm at my buddy's house, he pulls his sisters big wheel out of garage, pours gas on it and starts an inferno. Black smoke, flames just fills the neighborhood up with pollution... We stare.

    Boom his mom pulls in and eyes as big as saucers parks in front of the burning toy.

    Me?

    I rode my bike home chuckling.
    I spent my teen years dousing things with lighter fluid (nothing living) and burning them. That was the fate of most of my plastic models. Augmented it with firecrackers. Great battle scenarios.

    Also built a big bridge out of wood kitchen matches. Took about a week. Then I lit it on fire for that 30 seconds of awesomeness.

    Me? A pyro? :-)

    Pay attention to the open sky

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  15. #340
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I think this is a really unlikely scenario. That said, I'll play.

    First, I think I wait until Spring Training to let things play out with the roster. Given a fair competition, I do think it's possible that Cingrani beats out Leake for a rotation spot -- especially since there aren't any other lefties in the group. If not, and the health of the group (Cueto especially) holds up, I let Cingrani prepare as a reliever with a full complement of training games to adapt to the role. At the same time, I'm talking to other clubs to see about using Leake or Cingrani as the centerpiece to acquire a young SS or LF.

    Then again, since I want Chapman to start in an ideal world. I might let Bronson walk, convert Cingrani into a shutdown closer, and move Chapman to the rotation. But that's another question, I think.
    Think you are underestimating Leake's position, highly doubtful that he's not in rotation for next few years, unless his performance really, seriously goes south.

    Agree that, if it were me, I'd consider letting Bronson walk after this year, whatever contract he may agree to, only because at some point you need to make room in the rotation for the Cingranis of the world.

    But IMO Cingrani's days as a minor league pitcher are over. Whatever major league role is available to him, he gets. Unless there is a serious change in his performance, as with every pitcher.

  16. #341
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Think you are underestimating Leake's position, highly doubtful that he's not in rotation for next few years, unless his performance really, seriously goes south.
    I agree that if Leake maintains some semblance of his current performance, he's most likely a lock for the rotation in 2014. We've still got the rest of the year to go before we know what Leake's position will be next off-season though. He was on bubble this year until Chapman's plan changed. I have a hard time seeing Leake maintain a sub-3.00 ERA until the end of the year -- and I'm skeptical that he'll even keep it below 4.00, to be honest. I'd love to be wrong there, obviously.

    But IMO Cingrani's days as a minor league pitcher are over. Whatever major league role is available to him, he gets. Unless there is a serious change in his performance, as with every pitcher.
    I suppose we'll see what happens when Marshall returns and proves healthy. I do think at some point the other shoe is going to drop with Cingrani. Just a matter of whether it is a steel-tipped boot or a flip flop.

  17. #342
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Good organizations err on the side of getting rid of veteran players a year too early rather than a year too late. Better to see Arroyo have a good year somewhere else than a bad year here.

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    RedEye (06-20-2013)

  19. #343
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Good organizations err on the side of getting rid of veteran players a year too early rather than a year too late. Better to see Arroyo have a good year somewhere else than a bad year here.
    Right. In which case, there is plenty of room in the rotation for both Tony and Mike. And maybe even Aroldis, too!

  20. #344
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Well, so much for handling Cingrani with kid gloves -- here he is again, bases loaded, one out in the 7th of a 2-2 game between division leaders.

  21. #345
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Oh crap....it's a DAY GAME!!!! *dashes off to watch*

    ~edit~ Ummm....maybe I should've stayed away. As soon as I check in....3 run double off Tony. *sigh*
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 06-20-2013 at 03:19 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG


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