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Thread: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

  1. #196
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Well who are the players you are asking about?

    Well for Cingrani it should be more than an inning. I am not saying he is not a good pitcher, just that 2/3 of an inning does not mean he is the cure to all that ails the pen. (Doesn't mean that he isn't either.) With LeCure 3 years is certainly enough to show he is a good reliever and his stumbles are just that a stumble. I remember around this time last year Chapman had an awful week with multiple blown saves inc a loss to the Twins via a Willingham homer.

    Some relievers will have bad years for some reason. Doesn't mean they should continue in a trusted role for the whole year nor that they shouldn't have a shot at redemption the next. Sometimes it is just a bad week.

    And yourself? What do you think is enough of a sample to decide how to use a players?
    My feeling is that unfortunately the Reds are in a tough division. If they were in a weaker division they could make other choices.

    The wild card is a one-game crap shoot. So it becomes pretty important to win the division.

    Therefore -- I sense more urgency this year than usual. The Reds may have to win a lot of games to be in the playoffs.

    So -- I don't think there's a lot of time to wait out sample sizes this particular year. I think we need to go with the hot hand. Right now, Cingrani has shown (through his starting performances) that he is effective. I would go with him now.

    Lecure, the opposite. Not a hot hand. I'd be cautious.
    Simon -- hot hand. Partch -- maybe a hot hand, he was at AAA.
    Hoover -- jury out, but worth trying. Parra -- handle with caution.

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  3. #197
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Well it's either bus boys, or Chapman or Cinigrani will be ruined by not working on his secondary pitches (though he might be doing that right now, what hell do we know)

    All I know is that the Reds are doing damn well this year and still getting "whack a moled" by fans every time they decide to burp or fart
    Two things I've learned since we started winning:

    1) the draft is boring
    2) any critical suggestion is now met with, "it's not broke, stop complaining."

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  5. #198
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Two things I've learned since we started winning:

    1) the draft is boring
    2) any critical suggestion is now met with, "it's not broke, stop complaining."
    But it (the Bullpen) is broken and the Reds are addressing it.

    So instead of, "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem!!"

    We get platitudes about what if's and had wringing over the death of another great pitching talent in a long line of franchise pitching failures.

    All before a pitch is even thrown.

    Yes... the draft is boring, but so is soothsaying.

  6. #199
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    But it (the Bullpen) is broken and the Reds are addressing it.

    So instead of, "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem!!"

    We get platitudes about what if's and had wringing over the death of another great pitching talent in a long line of franchise pitching failures.
    But I don't wanna say that!

  7. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    So instead of, "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem!!"

    We get platitudes about what if's and had wringing over the death of another great pitching talent in a long line of franchise pitching failures.
    .
    "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem" = also a platitude FYI...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #201
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem" = also a platitude FYI...
    So Cingrani isn't a great young arm?

  9. #202
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    So Cingrani isn't a great young arm?
    My comment is about your statement -- Which is unoriginal and tells us nothing about the variety of factors that should be considered on the topic we are discussing here. So yeah, pretty much a platitude.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #203
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    My comment is about your statement -- Which is unoriginal and tells us nothing about the variety of factors that should be considered on the topic we are discussing here. So yeah, pretty much a platitude.
    Oh please, now we are just spinning our wheels

  11. #204
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    My feeling is that unfortunately the Reds are in a tough division. If they were in a weaker division they could make other choices.

    The wild card is a one-game crap shoot. So it becomes pretty important to win the division.

    Therefore -- I sense more urgency this year than usual. The Reds may have to win a lot of games to be in the playoffs.

    So -- I don't think there's a lot of time to wait out sample sizes this particular year. I think we need to go with the hot hand. Right now, Cingrani has shown (through his starting performances) that he is effective. I would go with him now.

    Lecure, the opposite. Not a hot hand. I'd be cautious.
    Simon -- hot hand. Partch -- maybe a hot hand, he was at AAA.
    Hoover -- jury out, but worth trying. Parra -- handle with caution.
    Make sense. I am quite happy to have the Reds give Cingrani a shot in the pen. I just hope it does not continue past this season.

  12. #205
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Make sense. I am quite happy to have the Reds give Cingrani a shot in the pen. I just hope it does not continue past this season.
    I expect Arroyo to leave after this season. Just think somebody else will offer him more years than the Reds will.

    Should be an opening in the rotation which should go to Cingrani.

  13. #206
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Oh please, now we are just spinning our wheels
    Hey, man, I am responding to the accusation of platitudes that you lodged. Was I supposed to just agree with that characterization?
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-18-2013 at 08:23 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  14. #207
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    "Wow the Reds have a great young arm to throw at this problem" = also a platitude FYI...
    Is it wrong?
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Is it wrong?
    Depends on what you mean by "great". Great at AAA? Sure. Great in a few starts in the show? Maybe not "great" but at least "very good." Great as a LH specialist out of the BP? That's an unknown with a lot of variables and considerations to be discussed -- principle among them the long-term effects of such a shift. We've been talking about that in detail with good points on either side. No need for posters to swoop in and unfairly characterize the side they oppose.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #209
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "great". Great at AAA? Sure. Great in a few starts in the show? Maybe not "great" but at least "very good." Great as a LH specialist out of the BP? That's an unknown with a lot of variables and considerations to be discussed -- principle among them the long-term effects of such a shift. We've been talking about that in detail with good points on either side. No need for posters to swoop in and unfairly characterize the side they oppose.
    I don't think anyone in the Reds' organization is viewing this as a "shift." It's more as filling a temporary, necessitated role.

    I also don't think the Reds are viewing him as being a LH specialist. Like Sean Marshall, he might do well against LHP, but he can also get RHP out too.

    If there are any long-term effects, no one has brought forth anything of substance to indicate that. Major League clubs don't seem to think there are any, as this sort of thing isn't all that irregular. As was mentioned, the Braves successfully transitioned Kris Medlen back and forth between the pen and rotation and it's paid dividends for them.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  18. #210
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I don't think anyone in the Reds' organization is viewing this as a "shift." It's more as filling a temporary, necessitated role.

    I also don't think the Reds are viewing him as being a LH specialist. Like Sean Marshall, he might do well against LHP, but he can also get RHP out too.

    If there are any long-term effects, no one has brought forth anything of substance to indicate that. Major League clubs don't seem to think there are any, as this sort of thing isn't all that irregular. As was mentioned, the Braves successfully transitioned Kris Medlen back and forth between the pen and rotation and it's paid dividends for them.
    I'm not aware that the word "shift" necessarily implies the permanence you are arguing here. I just meant it as a way of referring to a change of role -- which I think is pretty unarguably what is happening to Cingrani, whatever the duration turns out to be.

    I don't think that the new Cingrani strategy is without risk. Could it work? Sure. But for nearly every Kris Medlen success story out there, there is a Neftali Feliz crash-and-burn we can point to as a counter-example. Does this mean that Tony will have a similar fate as Neftali? Not at all. But to pretend that a seamless, Medlen-esque transition is a foregone conclusion is just, well, an argument "featuring Ludacris." Tony is still a work in-progress as a pitcher, and while he looks like a tough guy out there, he's still only a 23 year-old rookie with lots of development still to go. In any case, this is still very much an open question. For posters to openly mock those of us who are hesitating with this sort of uncertainty? Well, let me quote The Dude and say that, well, that's just, like, their opinion, man.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-18-2013 at 10:18 PM.


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