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Thread: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

  1. #286
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    As I already said, I think "development" is a misnomer. Either guys have it or they don'it.
    I am sympathetic to some of your points, but this is a hard one to back. By this rationale, the entire minor league system should not exist -- and heck, while we're at it, most educational systems are useless, too. Might as well dispense with teaching young people and let 'me sink or swim with what they got, eh?
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-19-2013 at 06:45 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #287
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    At the end of the day, though, the fundamentals are the same almost wherever you go. So the trick isn't actually teaching or developing, it's find the guys you think will do it.
    Is there a series of instructional manuals on how to throw secondary stuff, hit 90+ velo without getting hung out to dry on sliders, and catch professional-level pitchers that major league organizations can hand out to their minor leaguers? Sounds like so long as teams would write up "the fundamentals," the players could pretty much DIY it...
    Last edited by lollipopcurve; 06-19-2013 at 06:45 PM.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  4. #288
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quick question, and I don't think it's an easy one.

    Would you rather the Reds win the division this year and have it result in Cingrani being a reliever for his career?

    Or...

    Would you rather the Reds miss the playoffs this year but have Cingrani develop into a starting pitcher for his career?

    And would it change your answer if the second option had the Reds winning the Wild Card?

    For me, even if the second option is the Wild Card, I'm choosing option 1. But I understand why some would choose option 2.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #289
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Quick question, and I don't think it's an easy one.

    Would you rather the Reds win the division this year and have it result in Cingrani being a reliever for his career?

    Or...

    Would you rather the Reds miss the playoffs this year but have Cingrani develop into a starting pitcher for his career?

    And would it change your answer if the second option had the Reds winning the Wild Card?

    For me, even if the second option is the Wild Card, I'm choosing option 1. But I understand why some would choose option 2.
    Good question -- and it is an easy option 2 choice for me. Playoffs are playoffs. It is all a crapshoot anyway at that level.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Would you rather the Reds win the division this year and have it result in Cingrani being a reliever for his career?

    Or...

    Would you rather the Reds miss the playoffs this year but have Cingrani develop into a starting pitcher for his career?
    I don't see how the fate of the team in 2013 could be the direct cause of Cingrani's future role for as long as he pitches.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #291
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I don't see how the fate of the team in 2013 could be the direct cause of Cingrani's future role for as long as he pitches.
    True -- it is a bit of a false choice. Still, interesting to know where people come down.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #292
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I partially agree with you, but I think that the way you're wording this makes it seem like you're saying that management and coaching play almost no role whatsoever. If a player either has "it" or they don't, that means that no coaching will help a player develop new skills, or modify those they already have.
    I don't mean to say they have no role, but what I'm saying is that from one organization to another, the ability to coach and 'instruct' a player is probably not a real tangible difference. So I believe an organization's success in 'development' has more to do with better identification/scouting and analysis.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #293
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Mistakes are made in trauma rooms all the time based on short-sighted, hasty decision making.

    Cingrani is the main backup plan if there is injury in the rotation. If he becomes a reliever and fails to make adjustments to his off speed pitches, he will most likely be far less effective in that role.
    There must be a lot of trauma surgeons losing their license for malpractice if it happens as often as you make it sound
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #294
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    There must be a lot of trauma surgeons losing their license for malpractice if it happens as often as you make it sound
    When you are trying to save a patient, tough decisions have to be made... having known many ER docs, I have heard they are often more an art than a science.

    But we are getting a bit off topic. Fortunately, contrary to much RZ public opinion, the fortunes of the home team are not a life-or-death proposition. :-)
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-19-2013 at 09:07 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  11. #295
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Championships Matter.
    22 Years and Counting...

    Irony abounds
    Starting pitching wins championships.

    The Reds seem hellbent on moving power arms to spots where they'll provide the smallest return.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

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  13. #296
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Starting pitching wins championships.

    The Reds seem hellbent on moving power arms to spots where they'll provide the smallest return.
    Quality starting pitching does win championships. And the Reds clearly already have that (began play tonight with fourth-best starter ERA in baseball). It doesn't have to be all made up of power arms, however.

    It seems they can afford the luxury of using "power arms" where they are greatly needed at the moment.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  15. #297
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Second appearance tonight for Cingrani from the 'pen. Only one day rest. We'll see how this plays out...

  16. #298
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Second appearance tonight for Cingrani from the 'pen. Only one day rest. We'll see how this plays out...
    Struck out the side! Uh oh...

  17. #299
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Struck out the side! Uh oh...
    The concern expressed by you and others that I have some sympathy for is that the Reds will get beguiled by him in the pen, and lose sight of how good he was as a starter too. I assume they will not, but I can't discount it. Chapman is a bit of a cautionary tale there, as Dusty clearly got comfortable with him in the closers role and there he apparently is stuck.

    Cingrani looks great out of the pen, and I expect he will continue to look great, as he has really good stuff. I already heard Welsh tonight with the "I think he really likes the pen" which helps to set narrative.

    Bottom line, Cingrani is really good at pitching, and can do both (start and relieve) well. I assume the Reds won't lose sight of the fact that he's got a chance to be a really good starter in this league while he helps the team in the short term out of the pen.

    But I do understand why the concern is being voiced by some of the posters on here.

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  19. #300
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    Re: Cueto up, Cingrani stays for now

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Struck out the side! Uh oh...
    Guess you'd prefer, "Ondrusek gave up three runs and this game is over now."
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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