...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
Several thoughts
.....Williamson was always an injury problem. Graves went through the closer/starter/closer flip flop that got him out of whack. I'm not sure why Sullivan ever quit. He was effective till the end.
These guys essentially all had 10 year long careers. That's plenty of pension time.
Even in 1999 McKeon's usage patterns were seen as from another time. The idea behind greater relief pitcher specialization is that it keeps your good guys healthy longer. It's been a long process. The cost of course is that your "Bruce Sutter" pitcher isn't always in there during the most important at bat. It's not just Dusty, that does it.
I think teams have an obligation to protect the arms of young starters. Yes, you might be able to wring 3 more wins out of your season by pitching Strasburg more, but the very real risk is that if everybody does that then you run the real risk that generation of starting pitchers will flame out. While I do see that obligation, I'm not convinced that it is in the teams best interest to try and preserve the arm of every journeyman reliever that comes down the pike. If we would get 5 years of Sullivan/Williamson/Graves out of Simon/Hoover/LeCure but it meant they topped out at a 10 year career, then I think that's a trade that most reds fans, the reds organizaton and probably Simon/Hoover and LeCure would all make.
Last edited by dfs; 06-17-2013 at 09:48 AM.
"Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010
Sully was an anomaly, a real gem. He hung his arm out there 1960's/70's style.
Code:INNINGS PITCHED >= 100 GAMES STARTED < 1 T1 Ron Perranoski 7 T1 Rollie Fingers 7 T1 Kent Tekulve 7 T4 Gene Garber 6 T4 Hoyt Wilhelm 6 T4 Sparky Lyle 6 T7 Bruce Sutter 5 T7 Mike Marshall 5 T7 Dan Quisenberry 5 T7 Bill Campbell 5 T7 Duane Ward 5 T7 Gary Lavelle 5 T7 Dale Murray 5 T14 Jack Baldschun 4 T14 Bob Stanley 4 T14 Goose Gossage 4 T14 Greg Harris 4 T14 Dick Radatz 4 T14 Scott Sullivan 4 T14 Pedro Borbon 4 T14 Stu Miller 4
Does that really matter for a mid-market size team that is well managed. Get the best 6-8 years out of your personnel and let bigger market teams overpay down the road for arms on the backend of their career.
I like the idea of the original post on the pen usage pattern.
Scott Sullivan was a rubber arm for 6 years with the Reds. 5 of those topping 90 innings pitched out of the pen and 4 topping 100. He was out of the game by the time he was 33 which is kinda shocking. But if you look at the innings load over the course of those 6 years that may be why.
Graves was a guy who I thought was "linked" to PED's. His arm was messed with by flipping him from starter to closer to starter to closer etc. He had a much longer career than I originally thought. Williamson was a guy who you could look at and say arm injury. When healthy that guy was good, really good.
The idea to set a pen up how your theoretically going to use it sounds good. But what happens when a pitcher needs a day off, or is sore, or is going through an ineffective stretch? Bullpens are difficult to manage and volatile from year to year. Any idea of setting a bullpen rotation is going to get blown out of the water shortly after opening day.
The question of optimal bullpen usage presents an interesting situation where the player's interests and the team's interests are not fully aligned and arguably in conflict with one another. I raised this issue with respect to Chapman - when he was being considered as a starter, some were saying that his innings would need to be limited. And that's probably true, if the team is concerned with maximizing the chances that Chapman will be healthy over the next few years. But if you assume (that which I think is reasonable to assume) that Chapman is not likely to be a Red after next year, then how much importance should the Reds place on the long-term health of his arm. And doesn't the view that he will soon be gone suggest pitching him in all kids of two inning spots and whenever his services might be useful? And does the team have any moral/ethical obligation to set aside the team's best interests to protect the health of the player, even one that might not be around over the long-term? Interesting issue.
dfs (06-17-2013)
Looking back I think I jumped the gun in thinking the OP literally wanted McKeon back in the dugout when after I actually read the post I don't think he did, he just was kinda using his name in jest sort of.
I guess I should actually make it a point to read posts before I respond to them.
"Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard
Heck, I'm all for bringing either Mckeon OR Pinella to manage the Bullpen, the after-game food or even the Dustball himself. And before someone rolls out that old and tired argument that Dustball has seen a lot of baseball, I'd say Jack can top him there. Rem
"For Reds fans, by Reds fans" Learn it, love it, live it.
Exactly where I was going with the post. A RB in the NFL would have a longer career in a RBBC situation rather than a featured back. However they would cash in for more $$$ in a shorter 5-6 year career than a decent journeyman with a longer 8-10 year career (the Law Firm as a good example). Same with the relievers, pumping the stats for a few years would likely yield a bigger payday.
To be argued if multiple innings, fewer times a week might actually prolong a career. In the case of Chapman, the Reds should maximize the asset they have (within reason) as with 99% certainty he won't be a Red past his FA window.
Not to continue the focus on the creative thread title, but it was only 2 years ago McKeon managed the Marlins for 90 games. Obviously he wouldn't come back to "manage the bullpen" for the Reds, but let's not act as though the mere thought of Trader Jack resurfacing again in a baseball uniform is 100% out of the question.
“I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”
McKeon had heart surgery a couple weeks ago. I think seeing an 82 year old with heart issues resurfacing in a uniform would kinda be outta the norm.
But ya never know....
http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/mlb/...85&feedID=3720
"Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard
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