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Thread: Reds farm system overall

  1. #16
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Yorman seems to be putting up very solid numbers for a 20 year old at high A.

    20 doubles/4 triples/9 homers - I think this is a very good sign for a young player in the minors.
    I like Yorman as much as anyone. He's probably the most interesting prospect in the system, and I agree that he is trending in the right direction. But there are still holes in his game. Remember that the California League is very hitter friendly. So, while Yorman's EBH numbers are great, and encouraging, he's being helped by the environment. If the K rate starts to come down and the average starts to climb, he can get closer to losing that "maybe" status for me.

    Personally, I'd like to see him moved to LF, where the organization has something of a hole. His power RH bat also fits well with what the big club needs. In that he's now on the 40-man, they're going to have to push his progress. I wouldn't mind seeing him in AA at some point in the second half.

    I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about Yorman.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  3. #17
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I like Yorman as much as anyone. He's probably the most interesting prospect in the system, and I agree that he is trending in the right direction. But there are still holes in his game. Remember that the California League is very hitter friendly. So, while Yorman's EBH numbers are great, and encouraging, he's being helped by the environment. If the K rate starts to come down and the average starts to climb, he can get closer to losing that "maybe" status for me.

    Personally, I'd like to see him moved to LF, where the organization has something of a hole. His power RH bat also fits well with what the big club needs. In that he's now on the 40-man, they're going to have to push his progress. I wouldn't mind seeing him in AA at some point in the second half.

    I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about Yorman.
    He is 20 and in High-A. Man, you're tough on grading in that case. Oof.

  4. #18
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    He is 20 and in High-A. Man, you're tough on grading in that case. Oof.
    If you think Yorman is a sure thing, you're mistaken.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  5. #19
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If you think Yorman is a sure thing, you're mistaken.
    I agree he's very far from a sure thing, and the environment is certainly a factor. But nobody else on the team has 40% of their hits for extra bases. Yorman's currently at 53%. His K's are still too high, both as a percentage of his AB's and in relation to his W's. But after his disaster at Bakersfield last year, it's very heartening to see this year's numbers. High percentage of EBH's, trending in the right direction, young for the level, enormous talent. I like it.

  6. #20
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    I agree he's very far from a sure thing, and the environment is certainly a factor. But nobody else on the team has 40% of their hits for extra bases. Yorman's currently at 53%. His K's are still too high, both as a percentage of his AB's and in relation to his W's. But after his disaster at Bakersfield last year, it's very heartening to see this year's numbers. High percentage of EBH's, trending in the right direction, young for the level, enormous talent. I like it.
    Agreed on all counts.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #21
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I like Winker, but most scouts view him as a bad-bodied non-athlete who brings nothing to the table other than his bat. They aren't even sure if he can stick in LF.
    Thankfully he can do the hardest part of playing baseball then. In a world where Mike Morse can man LF, Winker will be more than adequate.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  8. #22
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Maybe it is just me but this is about as meaningless as it gets with regards to looking at individual prospect talent.
    The AAA record doesn't mean much (since every team loads up on old guys at AAA), but those other records certainly do. They indicate depth of talent.

    If the Reds farmhands are consistently getting walloped by other teams farmhands, that says something about their talent level. Talented teams generally win. Sure, there might a few good players scattered around those awful Reds farm clubs, but they are clearly fewer and farther between than they are for other clubs in the same league.

  9. #23
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    I think Yorman was injured for about a week in the middle of the season and his game suffered for about two weeks after the injury. I think it took him about two weeks to fully recover and get his groove back on. Over the last 10 games he has been smoking hot. Honestly the jury is out on him, if he rakes like he has over the last 10 games then he'll move to AA. At AA we'll see if he is a true prospect or not as that's the level which separate's the boys from men.

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    lollipopcurve (06-18-2013)

  11. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    The AAA record doesn't mean much (since every team loads up on old guys at AAA), but those other records certainly do. They indicate depth of talent.

    If the Reds farmhands are consistently getting walloped by other teams farmhands, that says something about their talent level. Talented teams generally win. Sure, there might a few good players scattered around those awful Reds farm clubs, but they are clearly fewer and farther between than they are for other clubs in the same league.
    So, basically you expect any given ML farm team to have the majority of the players on the team be major league caliber?

    In my opinion if you have 10 major league prospects spread across your entire minor league organization you are sitting pretty (most likely with 10 legit prospects you are a top org in the league).

    Let's say an org has 10 legit prospects spread out between 5 teams equally. That would be 2 legit players on each team. 2 players are most likely not going to make a big difference in the win/loss department.

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    REDREAD (06-18-2013)

  13. #25
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    So, basically you expect any given ML farm team to have the majority of the players on the team be major league caliber?

    In my opinion if you have 10 major league prospects spread across your entire minor league organization you are sitting pretty (most likely with 10 legit prospects you are a top org in the league).

    Let's say an org has 10 legit prospects spread out between 5 teams equally. That would be 2 legit players on each team. 2 players are most likely not going to make a big difference in the win/loss department.
    There are a lot more 10 potential major leaguers in any given farm system. There might only be one or two guys who project as all-stars, but every system needs to have it's fair share of platoon players, situational relievers, defensive replacements, mopup/swing relievers, etc. You need enough guys with the potential to play in the majors to cover the ridiculous attrition rate of prospects. For every prospect that pans out, you are going to have half-a-dozen who don't.

    Teams don't stock their AA and low minors clubs with guys they don't think have any chance of helping their major league squad. They know that most of them will wash out, but every guy on the lower level teams is there because they think he has a chance of being useful in the majors. Not great. Just useful.

    Farm systems that produce major league talent are also generally successful in the win/loss column. Just look at the Reds farm system when Votto-Bruce-Cueto-Bailey were coming up, or when Dunn-Kearns-Encarnacion were coming up. Those guys all played on a number of very successful minor league teams, due in no small part to their own contributions. Take a look at any farm system that has produced a lot of major leaguers and you will see that there is a lot of winning going on. The fact that the AA/A+/A teams are all not just mediocre, but flat-out awful says something about the talent on those teams.

  14. #26
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    This seems a pretty harsh indictment on the farm.

    Look at this year: Cingrani, Lutz, Patsh, and Robinson have all contributed to some degree. In other words, they were not totally useless when called up.

    Look also in recent history.. plenty of youngsters coming up and playing roles at the big league level.

    We're a winning team now. We're no longer getting a top 10 draft pick that will get drooled over.. The team is drafting fine. The minor league system appears to be a little bit thin because so many of them have made it to the bigs or have been traded for ML talent.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #27
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    I think Yorman was injured for about a week in the middle of the season and his game suffered for about two weeks after the injury. I think it took him about two weeks to fully recover and get his groove back on. Over the last 10 games he has been smoking hot. Honestly the jury is out on him, if he rakes like he has over the last 10 games then he'll move to AA. At AA we'll see if he is a true prospect or not as that's the level which separate's the boys from men.
    The last is always said about the levels, but as somebody who sees a lot of high A failures who were good at low A ball, I can tell you that the move from the one to the other is also a real separator.

  16. #28
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    This seems a pretty harsh indictment on the farm.
    I'm not indicting the player development system at all. The current administration of the Reds have done a fantastic job recently of bringing along young talent. I'm merely arguing that the farm is not in a good place RIGHT NOW, due in large part to their recent success at graduating guys to the major leagues and flipping prospects for major league talent.

    I also think there are more than a few fans wearing rose-colored glasses when it comes to the current state of the Reds farm system. There is not a lot of talent down there right now. I have total faith that the Reds player development folks will turn it around in due course, but right now the Reds farm system is in the bottom half of the majors, maybe even the bottom third.

  17. #29
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    One problem with evaluating minor league systems by won lost records is that the easiest way to win in the minor leagues is to mix your few prospects with experienced, perennial--and very accomplished--minor league players. I'd want, at the very least, to run the ages of all our rosters versus those of everybody else in the respective leagues before drawing any conclusions even about whether our teams are any good, not to mention the individuals themselves.

  18. #30
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    Re: Reds farm system overall

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    One problem with evaluating minor league systems by won lost records is that the easiest way to win in the minor leagues is to mix your few prospects with experienced, perennial--and very accomplished--minor league players.
    That is pretty much limited to AAA. It happens to a small degree in AA and very rarely in A ball or rookie ball.


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