Turn Off Ads?
Page 29 of 38 FirstFirst ... 19252627282930313233 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 435 of 566

Thread: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

  1. #421
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    That's two more crazily phenomenal performances than Hanigan has had this year.

    He's a catcher. You have to take notice of the big offensive outputs from them. Because a guy capable of doing that at the catcher position could have unreal value.
    By the way, I'm not advocating benching him, giving Corky more time, demoting him if/when Hanigan gets back, wondering if he visited Balco when he got to SF, etc. I am advocating tempering our enthusiasm. My view is that people tend to see what they want to in certain situations and their objectivity in turn can become clouded. Happens to everyone. In this case, I'm not sure that two huge games in totally huge offensive games should really give us much to go on. Besides the fact that maybe this is what people have been expecting. Again.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #422
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I feel like we are getting bogged down in minutiae Eddabbs. What is your overall view/take of Mesoraco now and going forward?
    See my most recent post.

    I, as much as anyone, want to see this guy become a big bat from te catcher position. But my view is that we are prematurely calling this the breakout, that this is coinciding with him "finally getting the chance" based on two games.

    That's my position.

  4. #423
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,487

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    This is about the time I'd expect him to begin his final acclimation process. Each step in the minors took quite some time. I think he may be on to something, but that's just my sense for it.

  5. Likes:

    Bumstead (07-25-2013), RedEye (07-24-2013)

  6. #424
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,788

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    By the way, I'm not advocating benching him, giving Corky more time, demoting him if/when Hanigan gets back, wondering if he visited Balco when he got to SF, etc. I am advocating tempering our enthusiasm. My view is that people tend to see what they want to in certain situations and their objectivity in turn can become clouded. Happens to everyone. In this case, I'm not sure that two huge games in totally huge offensive games should really give us much to go on. Besides the fact that maybe this is what people have been expecting. Again.
    So would you say that when Mesoraco struggled in very limited playing time, it clouded your judgement about him? Especially if he continues to play good ball? That would be my takeaway based on your assertions.

    .731 OPS on the season is what matters most, far more than any good game or bad game. It's better than Hanigan and it's better than a lot of catchers in MLB. He OPS'ed .855 in his only full season at Louisville. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that he's not a .600 something bat.

  7. #425
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    12,778

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post

    .731 OPS on the season is what matters most, far more than any good game or bad game. It's better than Hanigan and it's better than a lot of catchers in MLB. He OPS'ed .855 in his only full season at Louisville. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that he's not a .600 something bat.
    This is where I differ with some on the board. Mes' current OPS doesn't matter most to me. I'm very dubious of relying on composite stats except when they hold up over a substantial period.

    I'm high on Mes because of two things. His obvious power for a catcher. And his very good strike zone judgment. I think, taken together, they will produce at minimum a pretty good power hitting catcher. Maybe better.

    Right now, Mes' situation is fluid. A couple weeks ago he had back spasms and was down to .653 approx. Now he is hot although the pitchers those two nights got hit hard by most everyone.

    So for me, it's cautious optimism but no declarations of victory just yet.

  8. Likes:

    edabbs44 (07-24-2013), Norm Chortleton (07-24-2013)

  9. #426
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    So would you say that when Mesoraco struggled in very limited playing time, it clouded your judgement about him? Especially if he continues to play good ball? That would be my takeaway based on your assertions.

    .731 OPS on the season is what matters most, far more than any good game or bad game. It's better than Hanigan and it's better than a lot of catchers in MLB. He OPS'ed .855 in his only full season at Louisville. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that he's not a .600 something bat.
    I'm not sure that I ever really made any conclusive statements about him. If I remember correctly, I've been consistently saying that he should be productive if he wants to get material playing time. Two games doesn't do it for me. Also, .731 on the season is great but it could be .631 in a month or .831 or stay the same at .731. But I'm not going to act like .731 wasn't .660-670 2 days ago, because it was.

  10. #427
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    14,408

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    The reason his numbers go up and down so quickly is because he just doesn't have enough plate appearances for the numbers to stabilize.

    Pretty much the only way we can look at his numbers right now are his career line:

    230/299/378 in 452 plate appearances

    Roughly 2/3rds of a season (spread out over parts of three years)

    Good news is he's trending up right now.

    For the season, NL catchers have averaged an OPS of 709.

    Rocco

    Mar/apr 675 in 55 pa
    May 714 in 52 pa
    June 612 in 60 pa
    July 954 in 48 pa.

    Except for June Rocco has been around league average for a catcher.
    Dude seems to be progressing just fine
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #428
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    14,408

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm not sure that I ever really made any conclusive statements about him. If I remember correctly, I've been consistently saying that he should be productive if he wants to get material playing time. Two games doesn't do it for me. Also, .731 on the season is great but it could be .631 in a month or .831 or stay the same at .731. But I'm not going to act like .731 wasn't .660-670 2 days ago, because it was.
    If you look at the game logs for the month, his OPS has gone up every game he has played since July 12-7 games (not that seven games is any kind of sample size, though its three times as much as the two games you keep quoting.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  12. Likes:

    fearofpopvol1 (07-24-2013)

  13. #429
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,788

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm not sure that I ever really made any conclusive statements about him. If I remember correctly, I've been consistently saying that he should be productive if he wants to get material playing time. Two games doesn't do it for me. Also, .731 on the season is great but it could be .631 in a month or .831 or stay the same at .731. But I'm not going to act like .731 wasn't .660-670 2 days ago, because it was.
    A season OPS of .731 seems like making the most of his playing time. There was another stretch in the season when his OPS was around .720 before he had a bad stretch. This is baseball. There are good stretches and bad stretches for all players. The end line matters more than the "2 games" you keep throwing out. He obviously has done well in more than just 2 games to get to .731.

    It just seems like you want to cherrypick stats to fit your narrative on why player Mes shouldn't be in the lineup. When Mes wasn't hitting well, you pointed to his stats as the reason Hanigan should play more. Now when someone else wants to point out that he is making the most of his playing time, something you claimed he didn't do in the past, you still try to refute that. It's fair game to point out the flawed logic.

  14. #430
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    A season OPS of .731 seems like making the most of his playing time. There was another stretch in the season when his OPS was around .720 before he had a bad stretch. This is baseball. There are good stretches and bad stretches for all players. The end line matters more than the "2 games" you keep throwing out. He obviously has done well in more than just 2 games to get to .731.

    It just seems like you want to cherrypick stats to fit your narrative on why player Mes shouldn't be in the lineup. When Mes wasn't hitting well, you pointed to his stats as the reason Hanigan should play more. Now when someone else wants to point out that he is making the most of his playing time, something you claimed he didn't do in the past, you still try to refute that. It's fair game to point out the flawed logic.
    We go through these situations all the time on this board. Objectivity is lost because we have petitioned for said player for so long for whatever reason that this has to be real. Quite often this happens when the young up and comer is being "held back" because of the incumbent.

    I have never advocated for Hanigan to be the starter and that Mes has to pick up the scraps. But I do believe that Mesoraco has needed to play better in order to force a move. And maybe this will be the start of something good.

  15. #431
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,530

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    So if Hanigan were back healthy today, what % of starts would you give to the 2 catchers Ed?

  16. #432
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Monfort Heights
    Posts
    605

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    So if Hanigan were back healthy today, what % of starts would you give to the 2 catchers Ed?
    70/30 Mes

  17. #433
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    So if Hanigan were back healthy today, what % of starts would you give to the 2 catchers Ed?
    Kind of a ridiculous question as my answer today might change in two weeks. If I said 50/50 today, it could still end up 70/30 by the end of the season either way. Plus, There must be something that we aren't able to fully grasp going on why Mes wasnt given that all-in opportunity in the first half. His handling of pitchers and overall defensive contributions? Hanigan's? Something else?

    Take the defensive factors (known and unknown) off the table and I would easily give Mesoraco at least half off the bat starting today and let the play of both of them dictate the rest of the season. With the hope that Mes is getting the bulk by the end of the season.

    I don't know if there is something that is causing Ryan's abysmal hitting this season (luck, injury, something else) but don't forget, he has a .740 OPS from 2010-12. Right where Mes is.

  18. #434
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,530

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Kind of a ridiculous question as my answer today might change in two weeks. If I said 50/50 today, it could still end up 70/30 by the end of the season either way. Plus, There must be something that we aren't able to fully grasp going on why Mes wasnt given that all-in opportunity in the first half. His handling of pitchers and overall defensive contributions? Hanigan's? Something else?

    Take the defensive factors (known and unknown) off the table and I would easily give Mesoraco at least half off the bat starting today and let the play of both of them dictate the rest of the season. With the hope that Mes is getting the bulk by the end of the season.

    I don't know if there is something that is causing Ryan's abysmal hitting this season (luck, injury, something else) but don't forget, he has a .740 OPS from 2010-12. Right where Mes is.
    You are playing this one like a politician Ed. (And maybe I'm playing this like a prosecutor )

    For someone who seems to have so much input as to the flawed reasoning of others, it is not ridiculous to ask said person for a straight up answer as to what he would do.

    Of course things can and will change...but to ask what you would do today (if both were healthy...hardly a stretch of reasoning) is a fair game question.

  19. #435
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: The Burying of Devin Mesoraco

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You are playing this one like a politician Ed. (And maybe I'm playing this like a prosecutor )

    For someone who seems to have so much input as to the flawed reasoning of others, it is not ridiculous to ask said person for a straight up answer as to what he would do.

    Of course things can and will change...but to ask what you would do today (if both were healthy...hardly a stretch of reasoning) is a fair game question.
    So I would go minimally 50/50 (taking only offensive factors into consideration), likely giving Mes more opportunity to drive that number into his favor.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25