Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: My All-Star ballot

  1. #16
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,966

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    Yeah it's not even really close for me. Goldy by a mile this year.
    I think you need to learn the definition of the word "close", lol, because you clearly are misusing it in that sentence
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    73

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

    The Don has spoken

    Don Cameron
    Take the canoli

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

    The Don has spoken

    Don Cameron
    Take the canoli
    100 Walks > 30 Home Runs

  5. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    73

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    100 Walks > 30 Home Runs
    How in the world does that make ANY sense? 100 walks equals 100 times on base, but it does not compute to ANY runs scored OR runs driven in.

    If 100 walks is greater than 30 home runs, then Eddie Joost or Lu Blue should have been borderline hall of famers.

    Don Cameron
    A no nonsense type of guy

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,093

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

    The Don has spoken

    Don Cameron
    Take the canoli
    You should vote on All-Stars by picking the best player. That includes EVERYTHING that the player does on the field. Not just BA/HR/RBI. It includes every plate appearance they make, their base running skills (steals/caught stealing/ability to advance bases on hits) and their fielding. Anything that ignores that is missing the boat.

    And just for the record, you can't inflate OPS because of walks. Walks are a part of the game and a valuable part at that because they are a non-out and non-outs improve the chances your team can score. You can only win a game if you score. Scoring is vital. Making non-out plate appearances does a lot for that. Don't ignore the non-out because it isn't as sexy as some other preferred non-outs. The walk isn't as valuable as other non-outs, but it is certainly still valuable and to ignore it is to just buried your head in the sand.

  7. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    How in the world does that make ANY sense? 100 walks equals 100 times on base, but it does not compute to ANY runs scored OR runs driven in.

    If 100 walks is greater than 30 home runs, then Eddie Joost or Lu Blue should have been borderline hall of famers.

    Don Cameron
    A no nonsense type of guy
    It's simple.
    Below is the run value of each event above the run value of an out

    Home Run: 1.70 | Triple: 1.37 | Double: 1.08 | Single: 0.77 | Walk: 0.62

    1.70x30HR=51
    0.62x100BB=62

    Besides, OPS actually undervalues walks.

  8. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    73

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Walks are important, to an extent. However, they do impact the OPS because they add to on-base percentage. So, if you take away Votto's 25 more walks, then his OPS is lowered. Furthermore, with 328 plate appearances, Goldschmidt has been on base 125 times this year and has scored 52 runs while knocking in 67 with a .957 ops.

    Votto, on the otherhand....with 357 plate appearances, has reached base 153 times, has scored ONLY three more runs than Goldschmidt, and has 29 less rbi's but he has a .956 ops.

    So, do you see any flaw in OPS there? Goldschmidt is outperforming Votto.

    In the end I guess it really depends on what you look for in a three hitter. I, myself, would like a three hitter to DRIVE in runs. If a man is in scoring position, I would expect my three hitter to expand the zone to get the RBI, and not settle for a walk. But, perhaps Votto does that, which would help to explain a pace of striking out over 160 times this season.

    Votto's numbers would be good for a lead ofg or two hitter, but for the three hitter? Come on, man.

    But, hey if you guys think a three hitter should not be an rbi man, and walk over 100 times with no real stolen base threat, then who am I to judge.

    I, myself, believe that he needs to drive in runs...

    Don Cameron
    Sabermetricians would argue for Adam Dunn in hall of fame.
    Last edited by Don Cameron; 06-28-2013 at 06:16 AM. Reason: forgot votto ops

  9. #23
    This dude rules. HatchMo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    West Carrollton, Oh
    Posts
    75

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Cameron View Post
    Walks are important, to an extent. However, they do impact the OPS because they add to on-base percentage. So, if you take away Votto's 25 more walks, then his OPS is lowered. Furthermore, with 328 plate appearances, Goldschmidt has been on base 125 times this year and has scored 52 runs while knocking in 67 with a .957 ops.

    Votto, on the otherhand....with 357 plate appearances, has reached base 153 times, has scored ONLY three more runs than Goldschmidt, and has 29 less rbi's but he has a .956 ops.

    So, do you see any flaw in OPS there? Goldschmidt is outperforming Votto.

    In the end I guess it really depends on what you look for in a three hitter. I, myself, would like a three hitter to DRIVE in runs. If a man is in scoring position, I would expect my three hitter to expand the zone to get the RBI, and not settle for a walk. But, perhaps Votto does that, which would help to explain a pace of striking out over 160 times this season.

    Votto's numbers would be good for a lead ofg or two hitter, but for the three hitter? Come on, man.

    But, hey if you guys think a three hitter should not be an rbi man, and walk over 100 times with no real stolen base threat, then who am I to judge.

    I, myself, believe that he needs to drive in runs...

    Don Cameron
    Sabermetricians would argue for Adam Dunn in hall of fame.

    Would you make this same argument if he batted 2nd?
    Just a dude who loves the reds, and some new sneakers.

  10. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    73

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    No, I would not. The two hole hitter is different than the three hitter, as far as type of production expected from him.

    Don Cameron
    The choice of a new generation

  11. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    1,735

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    They are having identical years so far in terms of production. Almost the same OPS, and the same WAR.
    Which tells you how insignificant those stats can be at times. Joey is my favorite Red since Junior, but you can't ignore the other numbers. What about Joey's defense this year? Or his BA w/RISP and two outs? I love the guy, and it's great that he is again all-star game worthy, but he isn't at his best lately.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  12. Likes:

    Don Cameron (06-28-2013)

  13. #26
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,966

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt over Votto, for a plethora of reasons, but mostly because it would be nice to see some fresh blood in the All-Star game.

    However, it's a close call, and it wouldn't be a crime if Votto started.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    44

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    I want my first basemen to be a bonafide power hitter not a virtual 2 hole hitter that specializes in getting on base. Goldschmidt all day for me.

    Plus there isn't anybody that can convince me 100 walks is better than 30 home runs.

  15. Likes:

    Don Cameron (06-29-2013)

  16. #28
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,966

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    I want my first basemen to be a bonafide power hitter not a virtual 2 hole hitter that specializes in getting on base. Goldschmidt all day for me.

    Plus there isn't anybody that can convince me 100 walks is better than 30 home runs.
    30 HR's are worth about the same as 100 walks.

    According to Tom Tango, a walk is worth .35 runs and a HR is worth 1.42 runs. That means 100 walks are worth 35 runs and 30 HR's are worth 42 runs. That's assuming they are accomplished in the same situations. That is, the same number times with no runners on base, with one runner one, with two on, and with the bases loaded. So it is possible for 100 walks to be worth more than 30 HR's if most of the HR's are solo shots. And the reverse is true.

    http://www.tangotiger.net/lwbymob.htm
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  17. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    73

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    You can take the 100 walks, and I will take the 30 home runs. So, 10 walks = 3 home runs... that is just DUMB.

    Don Cameron
    Numbers do lie

  18. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    814

    Re: My All-Star ballot

    Below is a part of article from Chicago Tribune

    “There is certainly a snakebit quality to it with respect to our timing,” team President Theo Epstein said. “But to me the biggest factor is our inability to draw walks and to get on base overall. On-base skills translate to run-scoring much more than slugging skills.
    “To be blunt, we haven’t made much progress improving the on-base skills of some of the players here. If we can’t make improvements with the existing group, we will have to be even more aggressive acquiring players with on-base skills.”

    Almost every team's GM would know the above fact.
    Of course, home run looks good. But it is not as significant as it looks.
    We are not children to whom home run is everything. We are adults. Right?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25