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Thread: Official Trade Deadline Thread

  1. #16
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    The Reds should trade for some oxygen... stat, these guys are playing under water... they might drown!

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  3. #17
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Let's try and stick to what was said. I didn't advocate being sellers I said it was an idea.

    Further, there have been GMs, I recall the Chisox one year, who have "sold" despite having a pretty good record. They did so because they didn't believe the team was really a top contender and wanted to get there. May also have been financial reasons.

    If the Reds are seriously in the hunt to win the division, then obviously I wouldn't do it But if they are 10 games out vying for the last wild card spot, you have to think about trading a veteran whose contract is nearly up for good prospects.

    The Reds have a tough schedule, we'll see where they are. It's an unlikely scenario, but not impossible to imagine.

    And if somebody really wants Arroyo for the stretch drive, with Cingrani in the wings for the Reds, is it out of the question? If they offer a very good prospect?
    Sure, you said it was an idea. I was asking why a team that was 6 games ahead in the playoff race would want to diminish their chances of making the playoffs by trading core pieces.

    I am of the idea that all players are tradeable at any time, but teams must focus on their window when looking at value. The Reds are in great shape to make the playoffs. Clearly, the Reds window is now. You mentioned trading Choo, Arroyo, Bailey, Lecure and Marshall. The only teams interested in those players would be contenders. Contenders do not usually give up solid major leaguers for other solid major leaguers. Sure it is a possibility, but it would not make either team a seller.

    I certainly hope Walt is not taking pointers from Ken Williams, especially regarding selling players when in the midst of a playoff race. Ken Williams is not the precedent I want my GM to follow.

    For the Reds to be 10 games out at the All-Star break, the Reds would have to lose nearly every game for over a month. This seems like a very unlikely possibility. I do not know why we need to even discuss such an obscure possibility.

    I guess I only responded because I get sick of reading doomsday predictions for this team. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. The Reds will lose road games to tough teams. Just because the Reds lose 2 of three in AZ and may get swept vs. Oakland, it does not mean that they are not elite.

    Another poster posted the Giants record vs. top teams last year and it showed that even the World Series Champion from the most recent year struggled to do what all teams struggle to do, which is win on the road.

    Walt Jocketty and Reds fans should not worry about who to sell at the deadline, they should worry about what is out there to buy. If the Reds were a few games back, I could understand the hypothetical exercise. However, the Reds are six games up in the Wild Card. There is no reason to discuss the hypothetical.

  4. #18
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Sure, you said it was an idea. I was asking why a team that was 6 games ahead in the playoff race would want to diminish their chances of making the playoffs by trading core pieces.

    I am of the idea that all players are tradeable at any time, but teams must focus on their window when looking at value. The Reds are in great shape to make the playoffs. Clearly, the Reds window is now. You mentioned trading Choo, Arroyo, Bailey, Lecure and Marshall. The only teams interested in those players would be contenders. Contenders do not usually give up solid major leaguers for other solid major leaguers. Sure it is a possibility, but it would not make either team a seller.

    I certainly hope Walt is not taking pointers from Ken Williams, especially regarding selling players when in the midst of a playoff race. Ken Williams is not the precedent I want my GM to follow.

    For the Reds to be 10 games out at the All-Star break, the Reds would have to lose nearly every game for over a month. This seems like a very unlikely possibility. I do not know why we need to even discuss such an obscure possibility.

    I guess I only responded because I get sick of reading doomsday predictions for this team. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. The Reds will lose road games to tough teams. Just because the Reds lose 2 of three in AZ and may get swept vs. Oakland, it does not mean that they are not elite.

    Another poster posted the Giants record vs. top teams last year and it showed that even the World Series Champion from the most recent year struggled to do what all teams struggle to do, which is win on the road.

    Walt Jocketty and Reds fans should not worry about who to sell at the deadline, they should worry about what is out there to buy. If the Reds were a few games back, I could understand the hypothetical exercise. However, the Reds are six games up in the Wild Card. There is no reason to discuss the hypothetical.
    I understand your point, but a chance at a one game playoff wouldn't dissuade me from getting a decent prospect haul for someone like Chapman, Arroyo, or Choo (especially if he makes his intentions clear about not wanting to be a Red next season).

    It's just a one game playoff. One game they're just as likely to lose as they are to win. I'd be just as happy if they brought in some new blood and maybe reloaded for '14 with some free agents.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I understand your point, but a chance at a one game playoff wouldn't dissuade me from getting a decent prospect haul for someone like Chapman, Arroyo, or Choo (especially if he makes his intentions clear about not wanting to be a Red next season).

    It's just a one game playoff. One game they're just as likely to lose as they are to win. I'd be just as happy if they brought in some new blood and maybe reloaded for '14 with some free agents.
    Just keep in mind that Reds end the month of July with 11 games against the NL teams in California. Road games against the Giants, Dodgers, and Padres.

    And Reds now play Texas on the road, then the Giants at GABP. And in July they play at Atlanta and home v. Pirates.

    I have no idea how they will do, but it's not a bunch of home games with the Cubs and Marlins. So I would reserve all judgment on trades until we get well into July. Wouldn't rule out trades in July for younger and cheaper players, especially trades of guys whose contracts are ending.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-26-2013 at 06:38 PM.

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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    I respect every single persons opinion on this site outside of an obvious troll. That being said to even suggest at this point that the Reds become sellers is incredibly dumb to me. Yes they are struggling right now and have struggled the entire season vs teams with good records but that is no reason to just sell off every good player we have that only has a year left on there contract. What type of message would that send to the fans that the Reds have finally got to buy back in and start coming to games at a pretty good clip. The Reds are 5.5 games up in the Wildcard and that game would be a crap shoot no doubt but you never know what can happen. Never quit on a good season.
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  7. #21
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    I respect every single persons opinion on this site outside of an obvious troll. That being said to even suggest at this point that the Reds become sellers is incredibly dumb to me. Yes they are struggling right now and have struggled the entire season vs teams with good records but that is no reason to just sell off every good player we have that only has a year left on there contract. What type of message would that send to the fans that the Reds have finally got to buy back in and start coming to games at a pretty good clip. The Reds are 5.5 games up in the Wildcard and that game would be a crap shoot no doubt but you never know what can happen. Never quit on a good season.
    If I pointed out everything I thought was "incredibly dumb" I would've been banned a long time ago.

    You might not agree, and I understand why, but calling me dumb doesn't lend itself to credibility.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  8. #22
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Just keep in mind that Reds end the month of July with 11 games against the NL teams in California. Road games against the Giants, Dodgers, and Padres.

    And Reds now play Texas on the road, then the Giants at GABP. And in July they play at Atlanta and home v. Pirates.

    I have no idea how they will do, but it's not a bunch of home games with the Cubs and Marlins. So I would reserve all judgment on trades until we get well into July. Wouldn't rule out trades in July for younger and cheaper players, especially trades of guys whose contracts are ending.
    That's quite a daunting stretch. If they come out of it still breathing, I would hope they would be buyers, but I really can't see it.

    I'm getting a strong 2011 vibe.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  9. #23
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    If I pointed out everything I thought was "incredibly dumb" I would've been banned a long time ago.

    You might not agree, and I understand why, but calling me dumb doesn't lend itself to credibility.
    Wheels I have been following you on here for a while now and to say that I respect all of your opinions would be an understatement of titanic proportions. In short, you know what your talking about. But to me to even suggest selling at this point would not be a smart move at all for the Reds as it would anger the fanbase, I can't see them getting a HUGE return for either Arroyo or Choo and I just don't think a team 10 games over .500 should panic at all. Just get to the playoffs and anything can happen. If the Reds do everything they can and get to the one game playoff and lose I'll live with that knowing they did everything they could do instead of quitting halfway through a good year.
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  10. #24
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    Wheels I have been following you on here for a while now and to say that I respect all of your opinions would be an understatement of titanic proportions. In short, you know what your talking about. But to me to even suggest selling at this point would not be a smart move at all for the Reds as it would anger the fanbase, I can't see them getting a HUGE return for either Arroyo or Choo and I just don't think a team 10 games over .500 should panic at all. Just get to the playoffs and anything can happen. If the Reds do everything they can and get to the one game playoff and lose I'll live with that knowing they did everything they could do instead of quitting halfway through a good year.
    Fair enough.

    Bear in mind, though, that neither of us are suggesting a panic sell off. I did use the term "fire sale", but I just like using the term.

    I know fan sentiment plays a part, but two of the three guys I listed can be replaced and most likely won't be back next year anyway. Chapman is unwilling to fill a role that gives the club maximum value, and closers can be über valuable in the trade market.

    It would be a bigger travesty to be ousted in a one game free for all, coming away empty handed for the season ahead.

    There is a difference between panic and pragmatism, but you're probably right about what it would look like to the casual fan base. The Castellini's have worked hard to get them to notice their team's existence and I doubt they would jeopardize that by trading guys during a "penant race".
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  11. #25
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I understand your point, but a chance at a one game playoff wouldn't dissuade me from getting a decent prospect haul for someone like Chapman, Arroyo, or Choo (especially if he makes his intentions clear about not wanting to be a Red next season).

    It's just a one game playoff. One game they're just as likely to lose as they are to win. I'd be just as happy if they brought in some new blood and maybe reloaded for '14 with some free agents.
    The thing about a one game playoff is that if it is won, the winning team is one of eight teams with a shot at the World Series. Sure not all eight of those teams have an equal shot, but each of those teams sure does have a shot. The team that wins it all almost never is the team with the most talent; rather, it is the team that happened to have a hot streak at the right time.

    The Reds have enough talent right now that if the team got hot in the playoffs, the Reds can win it all. Banners fly forever.

    Dealing Choo or Arroyo does nothing for our chances of adding a big name FA this off-season and they won't be enough to bring in a nice prospect considering both are in their walk year. So dealing Choo or Arroyo not only hurts your 2013 chances, but doesn't do much to help 2014.

    Dealing Chapman could be a net plus, but I don't know what the market is for Chapman. If the Marlins would deal Stanton for Chapman, I would be game, but I am not sure if this is the time to sell on Chapman after his recent meltdowns.

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    wheels (06-26-2013)

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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    I for one PRAY Walt does something(not listein to TML report) to bring hitter for LF in a trade as well as a hitting catcher or SS. I get tired of watching the same guys make outs with zero plan when they go to the plate..And ZERO accountability. Look how bad this team plays when they have to play a team with a winning record. They dont show when they cross the lines to play a total focus and a plan to Win.. they look like a team most of the time against the better teams, "I hope we win" attitude instead of "we are going to Win" attitude..Thats why i get frustrated. And the same hitting coach has been here since Narron and no changes. If they dont make the post season.. There better be heads rolling.. Not acceptance of this!!

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    remdog (07-09-2013)

  15. #27
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    The thing about a one game playoff is that if it is won, the winning team is one of eight teams with a shot at the World Series. Sure not all eight of those teams have an equal shot, but each of those teams sure does have a shot. The team that wins it all almost never is the team with the most talent; rather, it is the team that happened to have a hot streak at the right time.

    The Reds have enough talent right now that if the team got hot in the playoffs, the Reds can win it all. Banners fly forever.

    Dealing Choo or Arroyo does nothing for our chances of adding a big name FA this off-season and they won't be enough to bring in a nice prospect considering both are in their walk year. So dealing Choo or Arroyo not only hurts your 2013 chances, but doesn't do much to help 2014.


    Dealing Chapman could be a net plus, but I don't know what the market is for Chapman. If the Marlins would deal Stanton for Chapman, I would be game, but I am not sure if this is the time to sell on Chapman after his recent meltdowns.
    Tough to argue with any of that, honestly.

    It's hard for me to buy into the old "bird in the hand" axiom when those birds are likely to be nothing more than fodder for the "birds on the bat" though.

    But, yeah...The Playoffs can be a crapshoot that goes both ways. I get it.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    One idea for the deadline is for the Reds to become sellers. Wonder what they could get at the deadline for Choo and Arroyo? Rentals for the top contenders.

    Those are the two obvious guys, I guess Bailey is a candidate too. Lecure might fetch you something decent. Can't think of anyone else who would bring much and the Reds are likely to want to trade off.

    Possibly Sean Marshall if he is healthy, but probably won't bring back enough to warrant a trade. Injury must hurt his value.
    Forget the baseball side of things for a moment. The Big Man at the top would never allow this to happen. He's worked too hard at winning fans' confidence and respect back the past few years to sell off key, recognizable pieces in the middle of a pennant race. Even if it made the most sense financially or baseball-wise, I can't imagine Castellini signing off.
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
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    REDREAD (06-26-2013)

  18. #29
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Forget the baseball side of things for a moment. The Big Man at the top would never allow this to happen. He's worked too hard at winning fans' confidence and respect back the past few years to sell off key, recognizable pieces in the middle of a pennant race. Even if it made the most sense financially or baseball-wise, I can't imagine Castellini signing off.
    Yeah, I can only imagine a fire sale of this sort if the team completely falls out of contention in the next month. Possible, but man, they would really have to screw the pooch to have that happen.

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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    The thing about a one game playoff is that if it is won, the winning team is one of eight teams with a shot at the World Series. Sure not all eight of those teams have an equal shot, but each of those teams sure does have a shot. The team that wins it all almost never is the team with the most talent; rather, it is the team that happened to have a hot streak at the right time.

    The Reds have enough talent right now that if the team got hot in the playoffs, the Reds can win it all. Banners fly forever.

    Dealing Choo or Arroyo does nothing for our chances of adding a big name FA this off-season and they won't be enough to bring in a nice prospect considering both are in their walk year. So dealing Choo or Arroyo not only hurts your 2013 chances, but doesn't do much to help 2014.

    Dealing Chapman could be a net plus, but I don't know what the market is for Chapman. If the Marlins would deal Stanton for Chapman, I would be game, but I am not sure if this is the time to sell on Chapman after his recent meltdowns.
    Give them Chapman and Hamilton. The window is closing. Neither of those guys will be heard of again 5-6 years from now.
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