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Thread: Official Trade Deadline Thread

  1. #241
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I would trade Votto, Stephenson, Cingrani, Hamilton, Winker, Chapman and Ervin for Miguel Cabrera and not even think twice about it.
    That would be one of the worst trades in major league history.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  4. #242
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    In the long run it could be, but the Reds would be getting perhaps the best hitter in the history of baseball for the next few years.

    Lets break it down:

    Votto = elite (top 10 hitter in the game today)
    Chapman = elite closer (did you read that fangraphs articles about how easily bullpen arms fall off the planet?)
    Winker = good prospect at a low level
    Hamilton = Stock is dropping, basically failing at AAA, can't teach speed though...
    Ervin = at a very low level in the minors, may end up being a good major league player in 3-4 years
    Cingrani = has seen success so far, but I see him as a late inning reliever, not a starter

    Miguel Cabrera = top 5 hitter all time, may end up the best.


    I regularly read a Tigers board (grew up in Toledo) and I remember when they made the trade for him. There were many posters freaking out about trading Maybin and Miller, saying they gave up too much. Maybin and Miller are now marginal major leaguers, neither of which play for the Marlins.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 07-17-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  5. #243
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    That would be one of the worst trades in major league history.
    No, it would absolutely be the worst by a very large margin.

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  7. #244
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    In the long run it could be, but the Reds would be getting perhaps the best hitter in the history of baseball for the next few years.

    Lets break it down:

    Votto = elite (top 10 hitter in the game today)
    Chapman = elite closer (did you read that fangraphs articles about how easily bullpen arms fall off the planet?)
    Winker = good prospect at a low level
    Hamilton = Stock is dropping, basically failing at AAA, can't teach speed though...
    Ervin = at a very low level in the minors, may end up being a good major league player in 3-4 years
    Cingrani = has seen success so far, but I see him as a late inning reliever, not a starter

    Miguel Cabrera = top 5 hitter all time, may end up the best.


    I regularly read a Tigers board (grew up in Toledo) and I remember when they made the trade for him. There were many posters freaking out about trading Maybin and Miller, saying they gave up too much. Maybin and Miller are now marginal major leaguers, neither of which play for the Marlins.
    Right, but who compares to Votto in regards to what Florida gave up?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  8. #245
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Right, but who compares to Votto in regards to what Florida gave up?
    Nobody obviously, but Miguel would replace him at first, so it would not create a hole on the major league team, AND Miguel is paid less and has a shorter contract.

  9. #246
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    You are way overvaluing the difference in value between Cabrera and Votto. Way overvaluing.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  11. #247
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Wow, Miggy has a 201 OPS+ this year. That is insane. Imagine what he would do in GABP.

  12. #248
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    He would be even more an amazing hitter than he is now and he wouldn't be playing 3rd base which would increase his value even more.

    And that would still easily be the worst trade in the history of sports.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  13. #249
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You are way overvaluing the difference in value between Cabrera and Votto. Way overvaluing.
    He has a 5.6 WAR, Votto is at 4.3 according to baseball-ref. I understand the other players may make up the difference down the line, but the next couple years I think Miguel would give the Reds a better shot at a WS than Votto, Chapman and Cingrani (not counting the MiLBers as they will not be in the ML roster for awhile)

  14. #250
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    He would be even more an amazing hitter than he is now and he wouldn't be playing 3rd base which would increase his value even more.

    And that would still easily be the worst trade in the history of sports.
    Really not seeing why it would be "the worst trade ever." It is Votto, a reliever and a bunch of prospects that may or may not pan out (history shows us most do not)

    I would bet if you offered that trade to the Tigers they would say no and continue riding the Miggy train.

  15. #251
    ZCTRMTP!!!!!
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    That would be one of the worst trades in major league history.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    In the long run it could be, but the Reds would be getting perhaps the best hitter in the history of baseball for the next few years.

    Lets break it down:

    Votto = elite (top 10 hitter in the game today)
    Chapman = elite closer (did you read that fangraphs articles about how easily bullpen arms fall off the planet?)
    Winker = good prospect at a low level
    Hamilton = Stock is dropping, basically failing at AAA, can't teach speed though...
    Ervin = at a very low level in the minors, may end up being a good major league player in 3-4 years
    Cingrani = has seen success so far, but I see him as a late inning reliever, not a starter

    Miguel Cabrera = top 5 hitter all time, may end up the best.


    I regularly read a Tigers board (grew up in Toledo) and I remember when they made the trade for him. There were many posters freaking out about trading Maybin and Miller, saying they gave up too much. Maybin and Miller are now marginal major leaguers, neither of which play for the Marlins.
    You left out Stephenson. Stud pitching prospect. I'll pass.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  16. #252
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    He has a 5.6 WAR, Votto is at 4.3 according to baseball-ref. I understand the other players may make up the difference down the line, but the next couple years I think Miguel would give the Reds a better shot at a WS than Votto, Chapman and Cingrani (not counting the MiLBers as they will not be in the ML roster for awhile)
    In each of the last 3 seasons Cabrera average WAR of 6.6, and Votto averaged 6.3. Cabrera is having a great season, but it's hard to elevate him a whole lot beyond that going forward based on 90 games makes little sense when he already has a fairly established value.

    Giving up 2 young, inexpensive, and productive roster players, and 4 of the organization's best prospects in order to get somewhere between a .3-1 WAR upgrade at 1st base aint high on my lsit of priorities.

    On the same token, would you give up Chaps, Stephenson, Cingrani, Hamilton, Ervin, and Winker in order to acquire Alfonso Soriano?

    Because essentially that would have about the same effect to the Reds as upgrading from Votto to Cabrera. It really is that insane.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 07-17-2013 at 04:23 PM.

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  18. #253
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Really not seeing why it would be "the worst trade ever." It is Votto, a reliever and a bunch of prospects that may or may not pan out (history shows us most do not)

    I would bet if you offered that trade to the Tigers they would say no and continue riding the Miggy train.
    "bunch" being the operative word.

  19. #254
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    You left out Stephenson. Stud pitching prospect. I'll pass.
    You are correct - my bad.

    Stephenson = top flight pitching prospect

  20. #255
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Really not seeing why it would be "the worst trade ever." It is Votto, a reliever and a bunch of prospects that may or may not pan out (history shows us most do not)
    People literally said the same thing when proposals of moving Votto, Cueto, Bailey, and Stubbs for Erik Bedard were discussed.

    Teams (and especially the Reds in comparison to the dark years) are getting much better at converting prospects into big league players. Look at the Reds roster:

    1. Chapman - prospect signed through minor league system
    2. Bruce - Reds draft pick
    3. Cozart - Reds draft pick
    4. Frazier - Reds draft pick
    5. Votto - Reds draft pick
    6. Bailey - Reds draft pick
    7. Cueto - Reds prospect signing
    8. Cingrani - Reds draft pick
    9. Leake - Reds draft pick
    10. Hanigan/Mes - Reds draft picks

    Where would the Reds be without these guys (I'll give you a hint, Houston Astros)? The top end prospects are the lifeline of a team like the Reds. Moving essentially all of them to fix, what, Votto?

    Are you starting to see why this would be awful? There is another dimension out there where you were named GM of the Reds, converted the trade, fast forwarded through time, and then smacked yourself in the face as the Reds had to fold, while the Tigers continued to be playoff contenders for all of the years in between. You are now out of a job in that dimension and have no way of feeding your family (which in this dimension you have 15 kids). Do you really want to be responsible for that?? As you can see these proposals have serious ramifications.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 07-17-2013 at 04:24 PM.


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