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Thread: Official Trade Deadline Thread

  1. #301
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Doesn't seem likely the Reds will do that. When has Jocketty ever favoured a slight hitting improvement for the C position while sacrificing defense?

    I think they'll continue to look for upgrades at the LF position, but I don't think it makes sense to change the catching situation this late in the game considering the importance of the continued success of the pitching. If Jocketty could find a catcher who excels in both areas, then it would be a fine of improving.... unfortunately, Posey isn't available!
    Patrick, I couldn't disagree more about the catching. The Reds' catchers have hit so poorly it is almost like having a second pitcher hitting every time through the lineup.

    The Reds' pitchers are good enough to pitch to somebody besides Ryan Hanigan and Devin Mesoraco. There are experienced catchers out there who can occasionally fill in and actually provide some offense. Even Navarro, from last year, could do this.

    Can it be that Devin Mesoraco is such a special catcher that the Reds pitchers need him back there? I know they are used to him, but I would risk having a different capable and experienced backstop handle them if the guy could hit.

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  3. #302
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    True, Doumit would probably be no worse of a back-up catcher at this point.

    I'd personally rather keep going with Mes because I think his bat will come around.... don't really see him being much worse than Doumit right now, and continue his progression in the future. It's not like Doumit is lighting the world on fire and would be anything more than a very marginal improvement even in a dream scenario.
    He's a lefty who would almost certainly get a GABP/weaker-NL-pitching boost. Mesoraco's plate approach doesn't portend much of anything good IMO.

  4. #303
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Hasn't mes been playing injured off and on this season?

    With that said, I do not think Doumit is a good fit for the Reds either, he is an AL player.

    It seems like catcher is the hardest position to upgrade via trade, teams just do not like giving up a serviceable catcher, they are just so darned hard to come by. This is why the Reds were so excited about Mesoraco after his breakout season in the minors.

    The reds need a power bat to play left field, they will have to live with catcher and SS until the offseason.

  5. #304
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He's a lefty who would almost certainly get a GABP/weaker-NL-pitching boost. Mesoraco's plate approach doesn't portend much of anything good IMO.
    Hank Conger is a very good defender and this year has hit well left handed. Not a great offensive track record previously. I would think he could be obtained, maybe.

    There must be others. I thought Navarro hit great last year when he played, he's a veteran, must be reasonably capable as a backstop.

    There must be others too.

    Mes hits lefties well so a lefty hitter might be a good idea, or switcher.

  6. #305
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Hasn't mes been playing injured off and on this season?

    With that said, I do not think Doumit is a good fit for the Reds either, he is an AL player.

    It seems like catcher is the hardest position to upgrade via trade, teams just do not like giving up a serviceable catcher, they are just so darned hard to come by. This is why the Reds were so excited about Mesoraco after his breakout season in the minors.

    The reds need a power bat to play left field, they will have to live with catcher and SS until the offseason.
    There are 34 MLB catchers (some small samples) hitting .700 OPS or better. I count 30 if you eliminate those with under 50 at bats.

    Mesoraco's OPS is .653. He is 46th on th MLB list. He tops the Reds.
    Hanigan's OPS is .569. He is 68th on the MLB list.

    So the Reds can wait for Mes and Hanigan to be healthy and playing well. Or they can acquire one of 30 catchers who are hitting at or above sea level to help out.

  7. #306
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There are 34 MLB catchers (some small samples) hitting .700 OPS or better. I count 30 if you eliminate those with under 50 at bats.

    Mesoraco's OPS is .653. He is 46th on th MLB list. He tops the Reds.
    Hanigan's OPS is .569. He is 68th on the MLB list.

    So the Reds can wait for Mes and Hanigan to be healthy and playing well. Or they can acquire one of 30 catchers who are hitting at or above sea level to help out.
    There are 34 MLB catchers hitting .700 OPS or better, but how many of them are on teams that will be selling at the deadline? That elimates a large number of them. How many of them are on teams that are out of the race and do not want to trade a solid catcher?

    I am sure that number drops from 34 to low single digits very quickly.

    At catcher defense comes first, so I think you can live with Hanigan/Mes until after the season, especially with Hanigan's superior defense. The position absolutely needs to be addressed in the offseason though. Hanigan is looking done and Mes just isn't good.

  8. #307
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Patrick, I couldn't disagree more about the catching. The Reds' catchers have hit so poorly it is almost like having a second pitcher hitting every time through the lineup.

    The Reds' pitchers are good enough to pitch to somebody besides Ryan Hanigan and Devin Mesoraco. There are experienced catchers out there who can occasionally fill in and actually provide some offense. Even Navarro, from last year, could do this.

    Can it be that Devin Mesoraco is such a special catcher that the Reds pitchers need him back there? I know they are used to him, but I would risk having a different capable and experienced backstop handle them if the guy could hit.
    I just don't think Doumit is very good. He's considered maybe the worst fielding catcher in the big leagues that actually catches. There's a reason he's with the Twins (ie. they have Mauer which limits the amount of time he actually has to be used as a catcher).

    I'm not saying that Mes should be unmovable from the catcher's slot, but I expect if they do look for a solution, it's more of a catch and throw guy that they feel wont hurt them. Getting an Eddie Taubensee wannabe just doesn't seem like a Jocketty/Baker fit.

  9. #308
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    There are 34 MLB catchers hitting .700 OPS or better, but how many of them are on teams that will be selling at the deadline? That elimates a large number of them. How many of them are on teams that are out of the race and do not want to trade a solid catcher?

    I am sure that number drops from 34 to low single digits very quickly.

    At catcher defense comes first, so I think you can live with Hanigan/Mes until after the season, especially with Hanigan's superior defense. The position absolutely needs to be addressed in the offseason though. Hanigan is looking done and Mes just isn't good.
    I didn't mean to suggest all 34 were available or good defenders or useful. But it's not like this is a scarcity. There are certainly backup catchers who can field adequately but are mostly offensive players. Navarro is an example.

    LF presents problems because Ludwick will be healthier and the Reds may well decide to ride with him. They are paying him. The backups there could improve, but Paul, Heisey may be better than some of the possible acquisitions as backups.

    SS doesn't hit, but Cozart fields well and a hitting SS is hard to find.

    So catcher is one place they can look for some offense this deadline. If they can't make a deal so be it, but I wouldn't write it off. The position has been a problem, I think we agree.

  10. #309
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    David Wright and Parnell for Cingrani and Stephenson or Hamilton (their pick--they can have em both if they kick in some payroll relief).
    I just don't see the Mets trading him or the Reds acquiring the remaining 7.5 years of his contract. He is the face of their franchise and when he is too old for 3B, I imagine he will still OPS .800+ from the other side of the infield.


    Some slugging options

    Colby Rasmus- Can play a real CF, .816 OPS, move Choo to LF, contract expires at the end of 2013. Arbritration until the end of 2014 (I think).
    Carlos Quentin- 22 million owed on his contract, expires at the end of 2015, currently sporting an .861 OPS
    Trevor Plouffe- 24.6% LD rate, not sure of contract but hits the ball hard. Current OPS of .769
    Kyle Seagar- Unlikely, but he'll play 3B and Frazier to LF. .869 OPS with a .359 OBP. Would look nice in the 2 hole. Under team control for 3/4 more years.
    Mike Morse- .767 OPS but has been playing hurt most of the season. Massive power on a 1 year deal.
    Jason Castro- Just because people want to trade for a catcher. .806 OPS will be entering his first year of arbitration. Houston could move him for a load of prospects. Who knows, they will not be competitive during his 3 year window.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  11. #310
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Personally, I want the Reds to target Carlos Gonzalez. He's under control for awhile (FA 2018) but it would take a king's ransom to pry him from the Rox. Chapman, Corcino, Heisey and 1 of Hamilton/Stephenson.

  12. #311
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Re: Walt making a "big" move:

    I feel like if he wants to make a move that actually helps the club in a meaningful way, it has to be "big" because of the prospect situation the Reds currently have. Some real A type prospects, but not a lot after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  13. #312
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I just don't think Doumit is very good. He's considered maybe the worst fielding catcher in the big leagues that actually catches. There's a reason he's with the Twins (ie. they have Mauer which limits the amount of time he actually has to be used as a catcher).

    I'm not saying that Mes should be unmovable from the catcher's slot, but I expect if they do look for a solution, it's more of a catch and throw guy that they feel wont hurt them. Getting an Eddie Taubensee wannabe just doesn't seem like a Jocketty/Baker fit.
    I have no view on Doumit, seems he's been around awhile. I do recall that he hit the Reds well when he was in the NL. Of course, in those years everybody did.

    I'm thinking the Reds get a stop gap for this year, so it may be somebody that the Reds don't see as a long-term solution. Then maybe add a more serious all around catcher in the off-season to share the position.

    Just seems in a non-DH league it's important to get some offense out of every position and a below .600 OPS is simply unacceptable for any position. There has to be somebody who can add some offense for the Reds at catcher.

  14. #313
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    What's the latest on Ludwick?

  15. #314
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    What's the latest on Ludwick?
    Fay, brilliant articulator he is, simply said 'August' about a week ago. Nothing else from Reds writers since C Trent on the 4th of July said

    "Ryan Ludwick said he's ahead of schedule, expects to be on rehab assignment this month. Swinging bat at 85%, pain free"

    Nothing new via twitter, though some random person says "Worked out next to Ryan ludwick for the reds at beacon>>> #whatastud #sonice"


    So I guess that's a good sign.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  16. #315
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Official Trade Deadline Thread

    Maybe to ease Ludwick back we see this:

    Choo
    Frazier
    Votto
    BP
    Bruce
    Ludwick?

    That'd be cool.

    Actually, maybe Ludwick could bat 2nd to get as many ab's as possible to find his rhythm.


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