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Thread: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

  1. #31
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Exactly the kind of response that made me hesitant to post that. I'm not in any way making a judgment call based on one game. Not my style. It's a culmination of three months of injuries, inconsistency, and mental blips. Sometimes the chips fall into place and sometimes they don't. It's a long season and I certainly hope I end up eating my words; I think the ability to win it all is there. I just have a different feeling than last year and I feel that whereas every time something broke in their favor last year, everything is breaking against them this year. That's all I'm saying, just an observation.
    I hope you eat your words too, I really do.

    And though many of the circumstances are entirely different, just think back to the 2011 season. On Sept. 5 of that year, the Cardinals were 8.5 games behind the Atlanta Braves for a WC. Myself nor anyone else that I knew (MANY of those folks being Cardinals fans themselves) had ANY faith whatsoever that the Cards would make the playoffs. Of course, we now know how that all played out. The Braves went on a downward spiral, the Cards got pretty hot and literally, during the Braves final game of the season (and subsequent loss), the Cards squeaked in by the hair of their chinny-chin-chins. In the AL, the Rays almost miraculously won their final game while the Red Sox lost and squeaked in themselves. That final day of the regular season was one of the most exciting and almost unbelievable nights of baseball I have personally witnessed.

    I remember, once I realized that the Reds were not going to make the post-season that year, thinking "I just hope we end up with a better record than the Cards at years end". Well, not only did the Cards VERY, VERY narrowly MAKE the dang PS, they WON THE WS! And did it in a, yet again, almost miraculous fashion. I will NEVER forget that game 6 vs. the Rangers and the Cards seemingly miraculously pulling out the victory.

    Yes, I know all of the above has little to nothing to do with the Reds (or really any other team) currently/this season. I just mention all of the above to point out that this can truly be a strange, strange game at times and that really, until the proverbial fat lady sings, very little in baseball is out of the realm of possibility, so to speak.

    So for all of yous whom are currently suffering from a bit of the doom & glooms, turn those frowns around and keep those chins up. Still a long ways to go in this race & I still have plenty of faith in my Reds at this point.

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  3. #32
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    There's been a lot of doom and gloom permeating the ORG lately.

    Something I think is forgotten around these parts sometimes is that there is no more "Votto Window" where the Reds only have a couple of years before all hope of a WS vanishes. Good portions of this team are locked up for a decent decent amount of time.

    I think we also dash victim to teams like '95 and '99. Seeing the Reds perform well and then fall off a cliff the next year has many believing that if they don't do it this year, we are screwed. With Bob and Walt running the show and the drafting being as good as it's been, I don't think that's the case any more. Just look at all the players who have made their way to the majors from the Reds system.

    Now, many of said players aren't playing for the Reds. The top of our farm system was pretty depleted after the Latos and Marshall trades and we are seeing the results of that when it comes to depth right now. People complain that other teams seem to have better benches, are able to just plug guys in and keep on chugging. We traded that luxury. If we didn't, Hanigan would be spending more time on the bench and Mes/Grandal would be taking over catcher duties. Instead of Parra or Partch, Boxberger would be in the bullpen right now. But that also means that the rotation right now with Cueto being injured would be Bailey/Cingrani/Arroyo/Leake/Wood. It was a gamble. Giving up a a chunk of your system for proven guys always is.

    But there is no lack of talent in A and AA. Even if the Reds don't win it this year or next, we have some young studs that could be coming soon in three next two or three years. Travieso, Stephenson, Henry Rodriguez, Hamilton, Winker etc. Not all of these guys will hit their ceilings, but add that young potential to the guys who will still be on the roster and I think we will be set in a couple of years with some productive youngsters and quality depth that we just do not have right now. That is, of course, if we don't trade a chunk of that away in an attempt to win in the next couple of years.

    Even if this season is a bust, I'm willing to wait it out and see where we are at then. I'm as excited for this upcoming batch of players as I was for Bruce, Homer and Votto coming up. And we are probably going to be able to see all of them in the same dugout.

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  5. #33
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Shut him down. Get the injury completely healed as we need a dependable starter
    I'm no physician - but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once - but I think they are allowing the lat to heal before sending him back out there. I just think that funky wind-up puts a lot strain on that lat which makes it more susceptible to strain/re-injury.

    Wasn't it Price who implemented this change in Cueto's mechanics a couple years back, because remember how Cueto use to almost fall off the mound after his delivery?

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...ds-cueto/?_r=0


    But Cueto, the Red's staff, as well as a majority in MLB, I think, have come to realize that his windup is the issue and will have to change.

    Johnny Cueto: Windup may be issue

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/92...ions-mechanics

    "I was discussing it with the head trainer, 'Do you think my windup is too strong and that's why I am getting so many muscle injuries?'" Cueto said Sunday in Spanish, according to ESPN Deportes contributor Will Gonzalez.

    Cueto said he would be able to change his windup in midseason. He was sidelined again last month with a strained back after pulling an oblique muscle in an October playoff game against the Giants.

    "I could change it just like that because I started doing it just like that and it went well for me," Cueto said, referring to a 2011 adjustment. "Let's see what happens. Maybe I just practice it in the Dominican Republic after the season is over.

    "But I have to change my form because I can't keep getting injured, although these things happen in sports. I work a lot over the winter to be hampered by injuries like this during the season."
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  7. #34
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    I find it amazing, looking at the pitching injuries/DL stints by not only the Reds but also the Cards and Pirates (how many different SPs have they used?), that these teams have been wining at the rate they have. I figure sooner or later it's gotta start catching up to them as the season wears on.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #35
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Whenever I get down, I just think about that mediocre 2006 Cardinals team that won 83 games and somehow won the World Series. They just played well for a month and happened to win the WS. This team was never as bad as them so I know we still have a chance.

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  10. #36
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Whenever I get down, I just think about that mediocre 2006 Cardinals team that won 83 games and somehow won the World Series. They just played well for a month and happened to win the WS. This team was never as bad as them so I know we still have a chance.
    This is my thought process as well. Just hang on for now and let JC take his time to come back FULLY healed and ready to rock. He's a gamer and I believe that he can return and compete even after an extended layoff. Get into the post season any way possible and hope the offense can get hot when it matters most.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  11. #37
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    I'm going to take the minority position and say the windup is a convenient excuse. Obviously at some point Cueto and the Reds will have to make that conjecture based call, but he pitched two full seasons with it, then all of a sudden its the most likely cause of a nagging injury? And he had injuries before the twist. Sounds like jumping to an easy conclusion to me.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

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  13. #38
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    I think people are confusing "winning the division" with "making the playoffs." Considering two wildcard teams make the playoffs, we still have an excellent chance at making the playoffs. Not a "good" one, an "excellent" one.

    And we still have a legit chance at winning the division.

  14. #39
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm going to take the minority position and say the windup is a convenient excuse.
    For the record, I don't think its the problem either. But if JC thinks it is...it is. Whatever it takes to get him back on the mound and comfortable is the correct answer in my book.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  15. #40
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    For the record, I don't think its the problem either. But if JC thinks it is...it is. Whatever it takes to get him back on the mound and comfortable is the correct answer in my book.
    Therein lies the problem. He changes the windup, injury recurs, time wasted on an unnecessary remedy....and back to the drawing board for answers.

    I guess at least they could spit in the dirt and say, "welp, I guess it wasn't the windup."
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  16. #41
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I'm scared to say this for fear of being run off the board for negativity, but I'm starting to believe this isn't the Reds' year.
    Ssshhhh.

    All is not lost. This spell will last another 5-10 games and then the ship will right. This happens. Don't panic.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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  18. #42
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Therein lies the problem. He changes the windup, injury recurs, time wasted on an unnecessary remedy....and back to the drawing board for answers.

    I guess at least they could spit in the dirt and say, "welp, I guess it wasn't the windup."
    I hear, understand, and agree. Windup change or not, he HAS to be given (and take) ample time to heal. If he comes back healed and no twist, I speculate he can still be very good. Coming back healthy is the main thing. And we all know the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  19. #43
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    When he comes back, put him in the pen. He's the ground-ballin'est pitcher on the team, great for pitch efficiency and two-inning stints.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  20. #44
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Where's that thread on Cueto's weight being the problem?

    IIRC, that thing had some good stuff.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  21. #45
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto leaves game with injury again.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm going to take the minority position and say the windup is a convenient excuse. Obviously at some point Cueto and the Reds will have to make that conjecture based call, but he pitched two full seasons with it, then all of a sudden its the most likely cause of a nagging injury? And he had injuries before the twist. Sounds like jumping to an easy conclusion to me.
    Cueto did not actually pitch a complete season in 2011, correct? I know that the lat/oblique issue was not the problem then, but sometimes I wonder whether there is a connection.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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