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Thread: Chris Davis

  1. #181
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I'm only saying I have the right to express my opinion -- that the conversation should not be going on given the evidence. My hope is to convince others of that as well.

    I just don't get what the yield of this supposed "fruitful" conversation is supposed to be.

    Beginning = Davis has 37 HR and might have done PEDs (according to wild speculation)

    End = Davis has 37 HR and might have done PEDs (according to wild speculation)
    Following on an earlier post from Brutus, Chris Davis currently has a .402 ISO. Since 1900, here are the names of the players who have had a full season of .400 ISO or better.

    Ruth, Bonds, McGwire and Sosa.

    If I could figure out a way to get 1st half numbers I would've done that. But even without it, I think that list is pretty illustrative.

    Here's another...from 1950 to 1993, here's a list of players who had full seasons of .350 ISO or better:

    1961 Mantle (.370)
    1956 Mantle (.353)
    1961 Maris (.351)

    From 1994 to the present (including Chris Davis), there have been 22 seasons of .350 or better. Many of those seasons belong to individuals who have been speculated about, either wildly or non-wildly.

    I'm not sure if questioning the performance in this day would constitute wild speculation, especially when we have a long history of seeing what the human body can achieve in the game of baseball. We have seen what PED usage can help someone achieve. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the two together and say "Hey, maybe something is going on here".

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  3. #182
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Following on an earlier post from Brutus, Chris Davis currently has a .402 ISO. Since 1900, here are the names of the players who have had a full season of .400 ISO or better.

    Ruth, Bonds, McGwire and Sosa.

    If I could figure out a way to get 1st half numbers I would've done that. But even without it, I think that list is pretty illustrative.

    Here's another...from 1950 to 1993, here's a list of players who had full seasons of .350 ISO or better:

    1961 Mantle (.370)
    1956 Mantle (.353)
    1961 Maris (.351)


    From 1994 to the present (including Chris Davis), there have been 22 seasons of .350 or better. Many of those seasons belong to individuals who have been speculated about, either wildly or non-wildly.

    I'm not sure if questioning the performance in this day would constitute wild speculation, especially when we have a long history of seeing what the human body can achieve in the game of baseball. We have seen what PED usage can help someone achieve. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the two together and say "Hey, maybe something is going on here".
    Code:
    SEASON
    1876-1993
    
    ISOLATED POWER                YEAR     ISO    
    1    Babe Ruth                1920     .472   
    2    Babe Ruth                1921     .469   
    3    Babe Ruth                1927     .417   
    4    Lou Gehrig               1927     .392   
    5    Babe Ruth                1928     .386   
    6    Jimmie Foxx              1932     .385   
    7    Babe Ruth                1930     .373   
    8    Babe Ruth                1923     .372   
    9    Mickey Mantle            1961     .370   
    10   Hank Greenberg           1938     .369   
    11   Hack Wilson              1930     .368   
    12   Babe Ruth                1926     .366   
    13   Babe Ruth                1924     .361   
    14   Babe Ruth                1922     .357   
    15   Jimmie Foxx              1938     .356   
    16   Rogers Hornsby           1925     .353   
    17   Mickey Mantle            1956     .353   
    18   Babe Ruth                1929     .353   
    19   Roger Maris              1961     .351

  4. #183
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Code:
    SEASON
    1876-1993
    
    ISOLATED POWER                YEAR     ISO    
    1    Babe Ruth                1920     .472   
    2    Babe Ruth                1921     .469   
    3    Babe Ruth                1927     .417   
    4    Lou Gehrig               1927     .392   
    5    Babe Ruth                1928     .386   
    6    Jimmie Foxx              1932     .385   
    7    Babe Ruth                1930     .373   
    8    Babe Ruth                1923     .372   
    9    Mickey Mantle            1961     .370   
    10   Hank Greenberg           1938     .369   
    11   Hack Wilson              1930     .368   
    12   Babe Ruth                1926     .366   
    13   Babe Ruth                1924     .361   
    14   Babe Ruth                1922     .357   
    15   Jimmie Foxx              1938     .356   
    16   Rogers Hornsby           1925     .353   
    17   Mickey Mantle            1956     .353   
    18   Babe Ruth                1929     .353   
    19   Roger Maris              1961     .351
    While we are at it let's look at ISP vs the league

    Steroid guys represented include the two most thought of and Sosa and Bagwell, the rest are Babe Ruth and friends.. and Kevin Mitchell?


    Code:
    ISOLATED POWER                YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Barry Bonds              2001     .364     .536     .171   
    2    Babe Ruth                1920     .363     .472     .109   
    3    Babe Ruth                1921     .347     .469     .121   
    4    Mark McGwire             1998     .298     .454     .155   
    5    Babe Ruth                1927     .298     .417     .118   
    6    Barry Bonds              2004     .283     .450     .167   
    7    Lou Gehrig               1927     .274     .392     .118   
    8    Barry Bonds              2002     .272     .429     .157   
    9    Babe Ruth                1928     .265     .386     .121   
    10   Babe Ruth                1923     .261     .372     .111   
    11   Jimmie Foxx              1932     .251     .385     .134   
    12   Mark McGwire             1996     .251     .418     .168   
    13   Mark McGwire             1999     .250     .418     .168   
    14   Babe Ruth                1924     .250     .361     .111   
    15   Babe Ruth                1926     .249     .366     .116   
    16   Barry Bonds              2003     .245     .408     .162   
    17   Babe Ruth                1919     .241     .336     .095   
    18   Babe Ruth                1922     .239     .357     .118   
    19   Sammy Sosa               2001     .238     .409     .171   
    20   Babe Ruth                1930     .234     .373     .139   
    21   Jeff Bagwell             1994     .227     .383     .155   
    22   Hank Greenberg           1938     .226     .369     .142   
    23   Rogers Hornsby           1925     .225     .353     .128   
    24   Jimmie Foxx              1933     .224     .347     .124   
    25   Babe Ruth                1929     .223     .353     .130   
    26   Mickey Mantle            1961     .223     .370     .147   
    27   Hank Aaron               1971     .221     .341     .121   
    28   Kevin Mitchell           1989     .220     .344     .124   
    29   Willie Stargell          1973     .219     .347     .128   
    30   Mike Schmidt             1980     .217     .338     .120

  5. #184
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Code:
    SEASON
    1876-1993
    
    ISOLATED POWER                YEAR     ISO    
    1    Babe Ruth                1920     .472   
    2    Babe Ruth                1921     .469   
    3    Babe Ruth                1927     .417   
    4    Lou Gehrig               1927     .392   
    5    Babe Ruth                1928     .386   
    6    Jimmie Foxx              1932     .385   
    7    Babe Ruth                1930     .373   
    8    Babe Ruth                1923     .372   
    9    Mickey Mantle            1961     .370   
    10   Hank Greenberg           1938     .369   
    11   Hack Wilson              1930     .368   
    12   Babe Ruth                1926     .366   
    13   Babe Ruth                1924     .361   
    14   Babe Ruth                1922     .357   
    15   Jimmie Foxx              1938     .356   
    16   Rogers Hornsby           1925     .353   
    17   Mickey Mantle            1956     .353   
    18   Babe Ruth                1929     .353   
    19   Roger Maris              1961     .351
    Not sure what you are getting at here

  6. #185
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    I wonder if we'll ever get back to the time when an amazing feat didn't automatically lead to thoughts about pharmacology. I miss the days when baseball talk was about baseball.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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  8. #186
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    While we are at it let's look at ISP vs the league

    Steroid guys represented include the two most thought of and Sosa and Bagwell, the rest are Babe Ruth and friends.. and Kevin Mitchell?


    Code:
    ISOLATED POWER                YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Barry Bonds              2001     .364     .536     .171   
    2    Babe Ruth                1920     .363     .472     .109   
    3    Babe Ruth                1921     .347     .469     .121   
    4    Mark McGwire             1998     .298     .454     .155   
    5    Babe Ruth                1927     .298     .417     .118   
    6    Barry Bonds              2004     .283     .450     .167   
    7    Lou Gehrig               1927     .274     .392     .118   
    8    Barry Bonds              2002     .272     .429     .157   
    9    Babe Ruth                1928     .265     .386     .121   
    10   Babe Ruth                1923     .261     .372     .111   
    11   Jimmie Foxx              1932     .251     .385     .134   
    12   Mark McGwire             1996     .251     .418     .168   
    13   Mark McGwire             1999     .250     .418     .168   
    14   Babe Ruth                1924     .250     .361     .111   
    15   Babe Ruth                1926     .249     .366     .116   
    16   Barry Bonds              2003     .245     .408     .162   
    17   Babe Ruth                1919     .241     .336     .095   
    18   Babe Ruth                1922     .239     .357     .118   
    19   Sammy Sosa               2001     .238     .409     .171   
    20   Babe Ruth                1930     .234     .373     .139   
    21   Jeff Bagwell             1994     .227     .383     .155   
    22   Hank Greenberg           1938     .226     .369     .142   
    23   Rogers Hornsby           1925     .225     .353     .128   
    24   Jimmie Foxx              1933     .224     .347     .124   
    25   Babe Ruth                1929     .223     .353     .130   
    26   Mickey Mantle            1961     .223     .370     .147   
    27   Hank Aaron               1971     .221     .341     .121   
    28   Kevin Mitchell           1989     .220     .344     .124   
    29   Willie Stargell          1973     .219     .347     .128   
    30   Mike Schmidt             1980     .217     .338     .120
    Or here.

  9. #187
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I wonder if we'll ever get back to the time when an amazing feat didn't automatically lead to thoughts about pharmacology. I miss the days when baseball talk was about baseball.
    Sad, right? And it isn't just about baseball. It is all sports.

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  11. #188
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Or here.
    ?

    Anyway way more than 3 guys with a .350 ISP, but please continue on the rail you have chosen

  12. #189
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Not sure what you are getting at here
    You conveniently used 1950 as your beginning point...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #190
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    ?

    Anyway way more than 3 guys with a .350 ISP, but please continue on the rail you have chosen
    Different periods of time.

  14. #191
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    You conveniently used 1950 as your beginning point...
    Convenient would've been using 1939 to present (or .375 ISO), since that wouldn't have changed anything. Just picked 1950 randomly, actually. Same with .350.

  15. #192
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Sad, right? And it isn't just about baseball. It is all sports.
    I agree. It is about all sports, and it's very sad.
    Last edited by wolfboy; 07-15-2013 at 12:38 PM.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  16. #193
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Different periods of time.
    Otherwise known as "Fudging the data"

    Pretty weak to make ones point too.

    The game is the game, it starts in 1876 as far as MLB goes and the stats are from all the years, not just the ones you conjure up in your echo chamber

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  18. #194
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    What I'm more interested in, and I may wind up doing the research myself, is how many guys have added 200 points to their ISO in a season over their career average, with at least 1,000 established at-bats. That is what I think might be the most telling.

    I suspect that list would be comprised of counting on one hand.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  19. #195
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chris Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    What I'm more interested in, and I may wind up doing the research myself, is how many guys have added 200 points to their ISO in a season over their career average, with at least 1,000 established at-bats. That is what I think might be the most telling.

    I suspect that list would be comprised of counting on one hand.
    Exactly, there is evidence that people do steroids and hit HRs there is evidence that people don't do steroids and hit HRs.

    It's the evidence that all HRs equal steroids that is lacking and wrought with pitfalls

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