Chris Davis

[dougdirt]

I'm talking about marquee players and their accomplishments. That's what I originally replied to. I never said there aren't drugs in other sports. I said the marquee players who are putting up eye-opening numbers in football, basketball, hockey, etc., aren't being questioned or suspected. And no, I never considered Shawne Merriman a marquee player.

I guarantee you, if Adrian Peterson, Tom Brady and Drew Brees tested positive for steroids, the media would be all over it. Baseball is going through a period, stretching well over a decade now, in which many of the biggest stars and most glamorous records, have involved PED use. No other major sport has endured a period like that, so maybe that's why there isn't the same suspicions and assumptions as there is in baseball.

That is because in the NFL 99% of the players can walk down the street and not be noticed by anyone other than "wow, that guy is huge". Guys that are elite players are basically no one unless they play quarterback or running back. How many people could pick Calvin Johnson out of a lineup of just headshots? My guess would be not many. The time these guys are seen, they are wearing helmets that cover their entire head and face. Shawne Merriman was one of the absolute best players in the league for several years, but you don't consider him a marquee player. Why? Because he plays defense and isn't named Ray Lewis. The NFL has two and a half glory positions. Quarter, running back and a wide receiver here or there. If you play any of the other 20 positions on the field hardly anyone cares about you.

[dougdirt]

Again, it's worth noting there are hundreds and hundreds of "banned" substances on the MLB list. Many of them are absolutely not illegal and can be purchased by any regular person at Wal Mart, GNC, etc.. That point really isn't very relevant to the conversation. There are many, many loopholes to legally take substances both legal and prescription-based.

Furthermore, we're not speaking about people living in a convent. We're talking about athletes playing a game that has seen overwhelmingly pervasive usage of supplements. This isn't exactly a needle in a haystack. It's throwing the ball up against the side of a barn.

End of the day it looks more like "He has good stats, therefore he must be cheating". I am surprised no one is speculating on Votto around here.

[crazy logic]
I mean his Major League numbers make his minor league numbers look bad. He topped out at 22 homers in the minors, twice. He only hit over .300 twice in 8 seasons. Clearly he uses by the crazy logic going on around here, right? I mean all of a sudden he is arguably one of the best hitters for average in baseball and man, that 37 home run season after only hitting 22 in a single year in the minors? Wreaks of cheating.
[/crazy logic]

[RedEye]

End of the day it looks more like "He has good stats, therefore he must be cheating". I am surprised no one is speculating on Votto around here.

[crazy logic]
I mean his Major League numbers make his minor league numbers look bad. He topped out at 22 homers in the minors, twice. He only hit over .300 twice in 8 seasons. Clearly he uses by the crazy logic going on around here, right? I mean all of a sudden he is arguably one of the best hitters for average in baseball and man, that 37 home run season after only hitting 22 in a single year in the minors? Wreaks of cheating.
[/crazy logic]

What about Barry Larkin? Where did that 33 HR season come from?

[Superdude]

When creating expectations for 300 some players, odds have it that we'll underestimate the talent of a few of them. Should I brace myself for seeing some random player's name with thirty pages attached to the thread every year from now on?

[New York Red]

That is because in the NFL 99% of the players can walk down the street and not be noticed by anyone other than "wow, that guy is huge". Guys that are elite players are basically no one unless they play quarterback or running back. How many people could pick Calvin Johnson out of a lineup of just headshots? My guess would be not many. The time these guys are seen, they are wearing helmets that cover their entire head and face. Shawne Merriman was one of the absolute best players in the league for several years, but you don't consider him a marquee player. Why? Because he plays defense and isn't named Ray Lewis. The NFL has two and a half glory positions. Quarter, running back and a wide receiver here or there. If you play any of the other 20 positions on the field hardly anyone cares about you.

Again, the original point was about marquee players putting up eye-opening numbers. That would eliminate 99% of MLB's players too.

As for Merriman, I never considered him a marquee player because he wasn't one. He had one great season, made three pro bowl rosters, and was basically done after his third year in the league. One great season doesn't make you a marquee player -- especially when you're busted for being dirty not long after that.

[dougdirt]

When creating expectations for 300 some players, odds have it that we'll underestimate the talent of a few of them. Should I brace myself for seeing some random player's name with thirty pages attached to the thread every year from now on?

Yes, you should.

[westofyou]

Torii Hunter on if 61 is "real" HR record: "No. Don't care what you're linked to, you still have to hit the ball out of park. It aint easy."

[BluegrassRedleg]

Yes, you should.

Yeah, because there's a clear track record for guys belting 37 HRs in the first half of a season EVERY YEAR.

[RedsManRick]

Torii Hunter on if 61 is "real" HR record: "No. Don't care what you're linked to, you still have to hit the ball out of park. It aint easy."

I think that may be the first time I've heard a player advocate that position. Amen!

[Wonderful Monds]

Torii Hunter on if 61 is "real" HR record: "No. Don't care what you're linked to, you still have to hit the ball out of park. It aint easy."

Is Torii speaking from experience?

[Brutus]

Torii Hunter on if 61 is "real" HR record: "No. Don't care what you're linked to, you still have to hit the ball out of park. It aint easy."

No one said it's easy, but in a sport where hitting 50 homers instead of 30 homers is the difference between being in the Hall of Fame and being an all-star candidate, as well as the difference between being rich and being filthy wealthy, any degree of difficulty being removed is noteworthy.

[dougdirt]

Yeah, because there's a clear track record for guys belting 37 HRs in the first half of a season EVERY YEAR.

Griffey held the record once upon a time for most homers through April and May. Must have been steroids. Funny that he held that record with Ruth. Must have been steroids for him too.

Anyone who holds any kind of record in baseball.... STEROIDS! You know, because no one has ever done better.

[reds44]

Griffey held the record once upon a time for most homers through April and May. Must have been steroids. Funny that he held that record with Ruth. Must have been steroids for him too.

Anyone who holds any kind of record in baseball.... STEROIDS! You know, because no one has ever done better.

Welcome to the hole baseball players dug themself in the steroid era. When guys hitting a ton of HRs looks too good to be true, it usually has been.

[jojo]

End of the day it looks more like "He has good stats, therefore he must be cheating". I am surprised no one is speculating on Votto around here.

[crazy logic]
I mean his Major League numbers make his minor league numbers look bad. He topped out at 22 homers in the minors, twice. He only hit over .300 twice in 8 seasons. Clearly he uses by the crazy logic going on around here, right? I mean all of a sudden he is arguably one of the best hitters for average in baseball and man, that 37 home run season after only hitting 22 in a single year in the minors? Wreaks of cheating.
[/crazy logic]

How about Arroyo?

But if we're talking about basing it solely on an in season performance that is different past ones, Leake is an obvious person to try a PED thread about. His ERA doesn't jive with his DNA.

[Wonderful Monds]

How about Arroyo?

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Arroyo was taking PEDs, but that's only because he's been fairly open about using a lot of other things.