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Thread: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

  1. #31
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    The golden sombrero thing isn't a Marty specific award.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_sombrero

    "The term was coined by San Diego Padre Carmelo Martinez in the 1980s.[citation needed] and first appeared in print when Leon Durham was quoted as using it in 1984.[5] The term "Horn" for a six-strikeout game was coined by Orioles pitcher Mike Flanagan in the immediate aftermath of Horn's game.[6]"
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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  3. #32
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    TSJ, you're arguing a relatively unpopular argument, but you've come as close to articulating the merits of this particular argument as I've seen. A few points you make raised my eyebrows a little bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Whatever you gotta do to get the run in. That's all I ask. Check your ego and don't be selfish.
    First off, how can one be selfish or not selfish in regards to trying to get a run home from 3rd(or advance a runner?)
    From your other points, it seems taking a pitch that you could actually drive to the outfield would qualify as "selfish" but what batter takes pitches that he believes he'll be able to drive the ball to the outfield with? While it's important to not misstate a player's intentions when he says he's trying to drive in runs, you shouldn't misstate a player's intentions when he takes a pitch.
    From Votto to Izturis, if a player thinks he has a pitch he can drive, he's swinging. All day every day. I really think the hitters mindset going to the plate actually is not concerned with the strike zone. It's "can I drive this pitch or not." The more disciplined hitters just happen to "think" they can drive more pitches in the zone than out.

    If it's a pitch he thinks he can drive, he'll likely swing, even if the pitch will be a ball. If it's a pitch he doesn't think he can drive, he'll likely take, even if it's a strike. (Admittedly the algebra probably changes a bit on a 3-0 count or with 2 strikes.)

    The days of "pitching, a little defense, and the 3 run homer" are a lot fewer and far between than they once were[/B].
    When did these days exist? Generally eras with a lot of homers involve almost no pitching, and eras with great pitching have much fewer home runs.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  4. #33
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Life?

  5. #34
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    TSJ, you're arguing a relatively unpopular argument, but you've come as close to articulating the merits of this particular argument as I've seen. A few points you make raised my eyebrows a little bit.
    Thanks, I'm trying to learn something here as much as anything. As a former player (not terribly long ago) I admittedly struggle with a lot of new metrics. All I know is my approach to the game and what I was taught. Many times I think it's a given when it's obviously not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post

    First off, how can one be selfish or not selfish in regards to trying to get a run home from 3rd(or advance a runner?)
    From your other points, it seems taking a pitch that you could actually drive to the outfield would qualify as "selfish" but what batter takes pitches that he believes he'll be able to drive the ball to the outfield with?
    "Selfish" may have been a poor choice but my point is that sac flys aren't very sexy. Chicks don't dig them but true team players shouldn't care. Just get the run in. If you have to give yourself up, so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    From Votto to Izturis, if a player thinks he has a pitch he can drive, he's swinging. All day every day. I really think the hitters mindset going to the plate actually is not concerned with the strike zone. It's "can I drive this pitch or not." The more disciplined hitters just happen to "think" they can drive more pitches in the zone than out.
    Truth. If it's a pitch he can drive, do it. ALWAYS. If the first pitch he sees though is one he can lift to right and score the run on sac fly, do that. Don't wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    If it's a pitch he thinks he can drive, he'll likely swing, even if the pitch will be a ball. If it's a pitch he doesn't think he can drive, he'll likely take, even if it's a strike. (Admittedly the algebra probably changes a bit on a 3-0 count or with 2 strikes.)
    Like I said above, I would never argue with a hitter who said "I thought I could hit that pitch hard. I though I could drive it in the gap". With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out though, even if it is a ball (especially high in zone) if the hitter thinks he can lift it to outfield and score the run, do it. Don't wait.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    When did these days exist? Generally eras with a lot of homers involve almost no pitching, and eras with great pitching have much fewer home runs.
    15-18 years ago when guys were setting HR records by the bakers dozen.
    Last edited by TSJ55; 07-01-2013 at 04:56 PM.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  7. #35
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Most players suck when the ball is outside of the strikezone. Even if they think they can do something with it (like a Brandon Phillips, who expands the zone more than anyone on the team), they probably can't.

  8. #36
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Pick a good one and whack it.

    Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  10. #37
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Pick a good one and whack it.

    Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
    Makes Vlad Guerrero smile... because he's an outlier.

    Don't be an outlier on purpose

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  12. #38
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Pick a good one and whack it.

    Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
    I can agree with that but I also think "a good one" can change from situation to situation as does "your zone".
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  13. #39
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    "Selfish" may have been a poor choice but my point is that sac flys aren't very sexy. Chicks don't dig them but true team players shouldn't care. Just get the run in. If you have to give yourself up, so be it.
    I'd be very surprised to find a player who wouldn't willingly do this in every opportunity. The problem is that it's really hard for a player to do and has a lot more to do with luck than you might imagine.
    As other's have pointed out, a sac fly is much different than a sac bunt because a sacrifice fly is essentially what the player is TRYING to accomplish whether there's no one on or the bases are loaded. Hit the ball to the outfield, let the chips fall where they may.

    Seriously, imagine a hitter who put the ball in the outfield every single time he came to the plate. He'd be the greatest hitter of all time.

    As a former player, you can surely recognize that going to the plate trying to accomplish something like "hit a sac fly" would be a lesson in failure.

    Heck even saying, hit the ball to the outfield is probably overcomplicating it.

    How about, "find a pitch I can drive, and put a good swing on it." If you do that every time, you'll probably strike out a bit, you'll probably get more than your share of base hits, and you'll probably hit a sac fly or two every season.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  14. #40
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Marty is great at play-by-play but when he starts offering his opinions he sounds like a simpleton -- a grumpy simpleton.

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  16. #41
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    As other's have pointed out, a sac fly is much different than a sac bunt because a sacrifice fly is essentially what the player is TRYING to accomplish whether there's no one on or the bases are loaded. Hit the ball to the outfield, let the chips fall where they may.
    I don't understand this. Power guys are trying to hit home runs. Line drive guys are trying to hit line drives and slap hitting guys are just punching the ball wherever they can. I don't know of any hitter who's aim is to loft a ball into the outfield where somebody can run under it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Seriously, imagine a hitter who put the ball in the outfield every single time he came to the plate. He'd be the greatest hitter of all time.
    I think he would fly out all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    As a former player, you can surely recognize that going to the plate trying to accomplish something like "hit a sac fly" would be a lesson in failure.
    Going to the plate looking specifically to "hit a sac fly" would be shooting yourself in the foot like we've already discussed. You may miss a pitch that you can actually hit more sharply with that approach. But, recognizing a pitch that will allow to you to get the runner in via sac fly and taking advantage of that is different.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    How about, "find a pitch I can drive, and put a good swing on it." If you do that every time, you'll probably strike out a bit, you'll probably get more than your share of base hits, and you'll probably hit a sac fly or two every season.
    You don't always get a pitch to drive in high level baseball. Especially in scoring situations. Not having to completely square it up and still get the run in is what I'm preaching.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  17. #42
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    It's interesting to ponder how few of the players on woy's list Marty would have encountered during those seasons. Most of the AL players had their magical seasons prior to interleague play. Most of the NL players had their magical seasons before Marty worked for the Reds.

    IOW, Marty's had almost no opportunity to gaze upon his version of baseball perfection.
    /r/reds

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  19. #43
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Makes Vlad Guerrero smile... because he's an outlier.

    Don't be an outlier on purpose
    Those aren't out of Vlad's zone
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  20. #44
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Marty is great at play-by-play but when he starts offering his opinions he sounds like a simpleton -- a grumpy simpleton.
    Great voice, great feel for the game too

    He just should hold back on trying to be analyst. In spite of that, I love Marty as an announcer still, I'm going to miss him when he's gone, and I feel like most Reds fans take him completely for granted.

    If you don't like Marty, just wait until you see who they'll end up replacing him with one day.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  22. #45
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    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    When the Reds get on a losing jag like this, the Brennamen become unlistenable. I've got the Extra Innings package, so for the next few days I'll be tuning in to Kuiper and Krukow, no contest. Those guys are quality.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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