Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 14 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 197

Thread: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

  1. #46
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I can agree with that but I also think "a good one" can change from situation to situation as does "your zone".
    Unless it is the bottom of the 9th in a tie game with a runner on third, a good one and your zone should always remain the same. At that point one run literally wins the game. Before that, you want as many runs as you can get, so don't do something that is going to lead to lesser contact.

  2. Likes:

    joshua (07-02-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #47
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,187

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I can agree with that but I also think "a good one" can change from situation to situation as does "your zone".
    The hitter's personal zone shouldn't change. It's their zone for a reason. Look for your pitch and whack it. If you don't get one in your zone you're not going to be able to do much with it.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Unless it is the bottom of the 9th in a tie game with a runner on third, a good one and your zone should always remain the same. At that point one run literally wins the game. Before that, you want as many runs as you can get, so don't do something that is going to lead to lesser contact.
    I'm sorry man, but I just can't agree with that. With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out pitchers will normally work extra hard to work the bottom half of the zone to avoid the sac fly. A pitch up (even to so a hitter who doesn't normally like high stuff) is a mistake. MLB hitters make a living hitting pitcher's mistakes. Why does that lessen the possibility of contact? Especially when the hitter doesn't even have to really step on it to get the job done. Most any fly ball to the outfield will work.

    Also, isn't the standard around here that all runs are created equal regardless of when they're scored? A sac fly in the 5th and maybe the home team never even sees the the bottom of 9.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  6. #49
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I'm sorry man, but I just can't agree with that. With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out pitchers will normally work extra hard to work the bottom half of the zone to avoid the sac fly. A pitch up (even to so a hitter who doesn't normally like high stuff) is a mistake. MLB hitters make a living hitting pitcher's mistakes. Why does that lessen the possibility of contact? Especially when the hitter doesn't even have to really step on it to get the job done. Most any fly ball to the outfield will work.

    Also, isn't the standard around here that all runs are created equal regardless of when they're scored? A sac fly in the 5th and maybe the home team never even sees the the bottom of 9.
    Plenty of fly balls to the outfield won't work. We see it all of the time.

    Also, hitters struggle to make contact on pitches up rather than pitches down. You need less bat speed to get to the bottom of the zone than the top of the zone.

    As for the 5th/9th, there is a difference. If you go up 1 in the 5th, the other team has a lot of chances still to get it back. So you want to maximize your chances of scoring more than 1 run. In the 9th unless you hit a home run with someone on base, you can only score one run. The runs are equal, but the game situations aren't.

  7. Likes:

    Slyder (07-02-2013)

  8. #50
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The hitter's personal zone shouldn't change. It's their zone for a reason. Look for your pitch and whack it. If you don't get one in your zone you're not going to be able to do much with it.
    IMO the only time a hitter looks for one pitch in one spot is in a 3-0 count. A good pitcher knows where a hitter's zone is and will avoid it. If he makes a big mistake and puts one in the hitters favorite spot, then it gets hit in the upper deck. If he just throws a mediocre pitch that is hittable, it just goes for single or double.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  9. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Plenty of fly balls to the outfield won't work. We see it all of the time.
    That's why I said "most any fly ball to the outfield will work".

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Also, hitters struggle to make contact on pitches up rather than pitches down. You need less bat speed to get to the bottom of the zone than the top of the zone.
    Sure they do. I'm not advocating hacking away at anything up in the zone. If the hitter feels he can handle the pitch and get enough of it score the run, he should. Not wait for a pitch he can drive at that point b/c he may not get it. You take runs when you can get them. Bird in the hand kinda thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As for the 5th/9th, there is a difference. If you go up 1 in the 5th, the other team has a lot of chances still to get it back. So you want to maximize your chances of scoring more than 1 run. In the 9th unless you hit a home run with someone on base, you can only score one run. The runs are equal, but the game situations aren't.
    I'm glad you feel this way. I do too (with the exception of looking to scoring more than 1 all the time). Gotta score 1 before you can score 3. Just be sure to bring that out next time the subject pops up and someone claims that they are all exactly the same regardless of when they're scored.
    Last edited by TSJ55; 07-01-2013 at 09:49 PM.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  10. #52
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I'm glad you feel this way. I do too. Just be sure to bring that out next time the subject pops up and someone claims that they are all exactly the same regardless when they're scored.
    They are the same regardless of when they are scored.

    The difference is that before the 9th inning of a home game, scoring as many runs as possible is important so going out of your way to try and score just one is counter productive. In the 9th inning at home you only need one more than the other team and the game is over. Strategy changes at that point.

  11. Likes:

    AtomicDumpling (07-01-2013)

  12. #53
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Let's use Brandon Phillips as an example. A sac fly requires a little bit of power because you need to hit it deep enough.

    He has absolutely no power when the ball is on the outer third of the plate. He has 2 extra base hits on 49 pitches in the zone on the outer third and one on 71 pitches beyond the outer third of the plate (including the outer third high or low) that he has put in play. Brandon Phillips, in a sac fly situation, should NEVER be swinging at those pitches trying to hit a sac fly. He sucks at hitting those pitches with authority. The only two spots where Phillips has hit for power this season are lower inside of the zone and just below that outside of the zone (inner third, just below the strikezone).

  13. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They are the same regardless of when they are scored.

    The difference is that before the 9th inning of a home game, scoring as many runs as possible is important so going out of your way to try and score just one is counter productive. In the 9th inning at home you only need one more than the other team and the game is over. Strategy changes at that point.
    So you're saying that passing up a run and banking on scoring more is counter productive? Knowing better than most that baseball is a game of failure?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  14. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Let's use Brandon Phillips as an example. A sac fly requires a little bit of power because you need to hit it deep enough.

    He has absolutely no power when the ball is on the outer third of the plate. He has 2 extra base hits on 49 pitches in the zone on the outer third and one on 71 pitches beyond the outer third of the plate (including the outer third high or low) that he has put in play. Brandon Phillips, in a sac fly situation, should NEVER be swinging at those pitches trying to hit a sac fly. He sucks at hitting those pitches with authority. The only two spots where Phillips has hit for power this season are lower inside of the zone and just below that outside of the zone (inner third, just below the strikezone).
    So he doesn't swing at a pitch on the outer third. Like I said, if he feels he can handle it a get the job done. I'm not saying a player should attempt to do something they cannot pull off. I'm saying they should have it in their mind that they don't HAVE to get a hit to get the run home.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  15. #56
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    So you're saying that passing up a run and banking on scoring more is counter productive? Knowing better than most that baseball is a game of failure?
    You are assuming that you can get that one run in the first place. It isn't a promise. Do all that you can to get yourself on base. If you don't get a pitch to try and get a hit on, then take your free pass to first base and hope the next guys gets a pitch to hit. A bad hitter getting a good pitch to hit is probably a better scenario to work with than a good hitter getting a crappy pitch and trying to do something with it.

  16. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You are assuming that you can get that one run in the first place. It isn't a promise. Do all that you can to get yourself on base. If you don't get a pitch to try and get a hit on, then take your free pass to first base and hope the next guys gets a pitch to hit. A bad hitter getting a good pitch to hit is probably a better scenario to work with than a good hitter getting a crappy pitch and trying to do something with it.
    And you're assuming that several more opportunities to score will come about. That also is not a promise. Just because a player doesn't get a "pitch to hit" doesn't mean he's gonna walk. Hitters don't hit "pitcher's pitchers" very often and they are strikes. Players don't walk on "pitcher's pitches".
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  17. #58
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,439

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    And you're assuming that several more opportunities to score will come about. That also is not a promise. Just because a player doesn't get a "pitch to hit" doesn't mean he's gonna walk. Hitters don't hit "pitcher's pitchers" very often and they are strikes. Players don't walk on "pitcher's pitches".
    My hitting philosophy is pretty simple.

    Before 2 strikes, only swing at pitches you can do damage with.
    With two strikes, only swing at pitches in the strikezone.

    Players don't hit well on pitches outside of the strikezone. Don't expand it trying to make something happen.

    My assumption from before is pretty simple: I would rather a hitter, no matter the scenario unless it is a tie game at home in the 9th or later or a game on the road in the 9th or later with a 1-run deficit or a tie game, to follow the same hitting philosophy laid out above in this post. It will lead to better contact, and thus more hits and thus more runs than swinging at less desirable pitches simply because someone is standing on third base.

  18. Likes:

    AtomicDumpling (07-01-2013), dfs (07-01-2013)

  19. #59
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,829

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    My hitting philosophy is pretty simple.

    Before 2 strikes, only swing at pitches you can do damage with.
    With two strikes, only swing at pitches in the strikezone.

    Players don't hit well on pitches outside of the strikezone. Don't expand it trying to make something happen.

    My assumption from before is pretty simple: I would rather a hitter, no matter the scenario unless it is a tie game at home in the 9th or later or a game on the road in the 9th or later with a 1-run deficit or a tie game, to follow the same hitting philosophy laid out above in this post. It will lead to better contact, and thus more hits and thus more runs than swinging at less desirable pitches simply because someone is standing on third base.
    I think that's everybody's philosophy including every hitter in the majors or minors and even the evil Dusty Baker. The problem is that:

    1. Some guys are delusional and think that they can handle stuff they can't (the Juan Franciscos, Chris Heiseys and Jeff Francouers of the world) and

    2. Some guys are so intent on getting that perfect pitch and seeing a lot of pitches that they let that fat one go by and have to settle for swinging at a far less hittable one with 2 strikes. A guy like Votto can still get hits when he does that. A guy like Drew Stubbs is toast when he tries it.

    I think my gripe with some of the stats that people look at when referring to "plate discipline" is that they assume the problem is always number one when, a lot of the time, the problem is number two. When a guy like Dusty says guys need to be more aggressive it's not always wrong and doesn't deserve the nasty reaction it seems to always get.

    The answer is still and always has been "pick a good one and sock it." People should just keep in mind that the "sock it" part of that phrase is just as important as the "pick a good one" part. Pick a good one and let it go by won't work.
    Last edited by mth123; 07-02-2013 at 03:43 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  20. Likes:

    REDREAD (07-02-2013), Revering4Blue (07-02-2013)

  21. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    My hitting philosophy is pretty simple.

    Before 2 strikes, only swing at pitches you can do damage with.
    With two strikes, only swing at pitches in the strikezone.

    Players don't hit well on pitches outside of the strikezone. Don't expand it trying to make something happen.
    I don't think we're far off with the exception that I believe scoring the runner via sac fly is "doing damage". If the pitcher has given you that opportunity, it was a mistake, and the hitter should make him pay the price immediately. Not wait around and hope he makes another bigger mistake.

    Your point is well taken though.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25