Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 65

Thread: Batting Average and the Reds

  1. #46
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    But we can't discuss why we often have a low OPS...stat that shall not be named.
    AVG is not a component of OPS, right?

    The OPS is too low because the hitters are not generating enough extra-base hits. The team needs to hit for more power. That is the problem, if there is in fact a problem at all. The Reds have a pretty good offense, not in the last 10 days but in general the team scores enough runs to get to the playoffs.

    If your team has a good OBP and a good SLG they will not be reliant on BA w/RISP to generate runs. Extra-base hits allow the team to score without first getting runners in scoring position.

    BA w/RISP is a stat that is extremely susceptible to BABIP and other random statistical fluctuations and is therefore going to ebb and flow over a wide range due to factors other than the talent and skill of the hitters. The key is to get as many baserunners as possible (OBP) and hit the ball as hard as possible (SLG) so that the team is not reliant on the whims of variance in order to win baseball games.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Your tone can easily be read as your are the superior knowledge on what is right and anyone doubting or denying is just some dummy to laugh at because they bring no relevance.

    Making a point without being arrogant can go a long way. Reading through this thread one just about has to assume your nose is up in the air as your smugness exudes.
    Thanks for the lecture on posting etiquette. Perhaps you should critique the snarky, rude, combative posts of the AVG crowd as well? Or do they get off scot free because you happen to agree with them? Your rude posts give you away.

    If you are going to argue that AVG is a good metric then yes I will be smug in my disagreement. Guilty as charged. I don't put my nose in the air though, can't see the keyboard that way.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 07-01-2013 at 11:25 PM.

  4. #48
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    3,710

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Thanks for the lecture on posting etiquette. Perhaps you should critique the snarky, rude, combative posts of the AVG crowd as well? Or do they get off scot free because you happen to agree with them? Your rude posts give you away.
    I agree with you......but the way you throw it out there I just kinda want to call Ty Cobb the greatest hitter of all-time.

  5. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,263

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Another way to try and make my point.

    Reds are second in the league in walks and HBP.
    Reds are fourth in the league in HRs and extra base hits.
    Reds are eighth in the league in hits and ninth in BA.

    To me, it seems like there is more room to improve in hits and BA than in the other aspects of SLG and OBP.

    Probably not a very sophisticated statistical argument, but it makes my point.

  6. Likes:

    mth123 (07-02-2013)

  7. #50
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    3,710

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Votto and Choo are making the team walk total misleading IMO.....it's not even remotely spread out like you might think from just looking at the numbers.

  8. #51
    Member Superdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,779

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    AVG is not a component of OPS, right?
    Does the OPS formula funnel off all the hits into Bill James recycling bin? They end up in there somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The key is to get as many baserunners as possible (OBP) and hit the ball as hard as possible (SLG) so that the team is not reliant on the whims of variance in order to win baseball games.
    It's difficult to do this without getting hits frequently. That's all anyone has said in this thread.

  9. #52
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    I agree with you......but the way you throw it out there I just kinda want to call Ty Cobb the greatest hitter of all-time.
    Well Ty Cobb did have the 9th-best OPS+ of all time, so I wouldn't argue with you too much.

    We did have a guy a while back ask if we thought Ichiro Suzuki and his career 112 OPS+ might be the best hitter of all time. I argued with him.

  10. #53
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Richmond, Indiana
    Posts
    1,696

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    This may not go along with this post, but it may....with the teams difficulty in stringing hits together -the 3rd base coach appears to be very conservative in his approach toward sending runners. Of course the other side of that is decreased injuries- decreased outs. They may have figured out what the cost benefit is on taking those chances. The OFers at GABP appear to be able to get the ball in quicker because of decreased power alleys.

    I'm not clear where i stand with the issue -i do wonder if it wouldn't help alleviate some of the pressure on the offense to be a little more aggressive in sending guys.

  11. #54
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,494

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Here is a good post about the perils of using AVG: Erase Batting Average From Your Mind
    Using a link to your own blog probably isn't the best resource to use in an argument between you and another poster.

    Here's an article written by the Mets' SBNation site that makes the point that you are discussing:

    http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/12/...atting-average

    The biggest issue with using OPS as a definitive stat is that it has a very clear issue with it- it counts the first base of any hit twice (e.g. going 1-1 with a single gives you an OBP of 1.000 and SLG of 1.000, so your OPS is 2.000, which isn't a direct representation of production). I agree with using wOBA and OPS more, but ignoring the fact that a single is more valuable than a walk in a lot of cases (e.g. runner on third, 2 out) seems closed minded in the BA discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.

  12. #55
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Does the OPS formula funnel off all the hits into Bill James recycling bin? They end up in there somewhere.



    It's difficult to do this without getting hits frequently. That's all anyone has said in this thread.
    Actually people were saying it was wise to sacrifice OBP to maximize AVG. All I was saying was that AVG didn't matter and I explained why before the poo was hurled at me, forcing me to give a full explanation for the 50th time in this forum.

  13. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,263

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    This may not go along with this post, but it may....with the teams difficulty in stringing hits together -the 3rd base coach appears to be very conservative in his approach toward sending runners. Of course the other side of that is decreased injuries- decreased outs. They may have figured out what the cost benefit is on taking those chances. The OFers at GABP appear to be able to get the ball in quicker because of decreased power alleys.

    I'm not clear where i stand with the issue -i do wonder if it wouldn't help alleviate some of the pressure on the offense to be a little more aggressive in sending guys.
    I"ve noticed it. And it's not limited to GABP, it's also on the road.

    On the other hand the Reds are a pretty slow team. Not too many base runners who SHOULD be taking chances. But I've noticed this and have wondered about it.

  14. #57
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    3,710

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Well Ty Cobb did have the 9th-best OPS+ of all time, so I wouldn't argue with you too much.

    We did have a guy a while back ask if we thought Ichiro Suzuki and his career 112 OPS+ might be the best hitter of all time. I argued with him.
    If I started a thread about the 9th best measure of hitting you might. Lol

  15. #58
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Using a link to your own blog probably isn't the best resource to use in an argument between you and another poster.

    Here's an article written by the Mets' SBNation site that makes the point that you are discussing:

    http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/12/...atting-average

    The biggest issue with using OPS as a definitive stat is that it has a very clear issue with it- it counts the first base of any hit twice (e.g. going 1-1 with a single gives you an OBP of 1.000 and SLG of 1.000, so your OPS is 2.000, which isn't a direct representation of production). I agree with using wOBA and OPS more, but ignoring the fact that a single is more valuable than a walk in a lot of cases (e.g. runner on third, 2 out) seems closed minded in the BA discussion.
    I linked to the post because it gave a thorough explanation of the topic at hand.

    I agree that OPS is not perfect and I said so earlier more than once, but confusing the issue with AVG does far more harm than good.

    Good night!

  16. #59
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    If I started a thread about the 9th best measure of hitting you might. Lol
    True. Especially if you said it was the 1st.

  17. #60
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,705

    Re: Batting Average and the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    This may not go along with this post, but it may....with the teams difficulty in stringing hits together -the 3rd base coach appears to be very conservative in his approach toward sending runners. Of course the other side of that is decreased injuries- decreased outs. They may have figured out what the cost benefit is on taking those chances. The OFers at GABP appear to be able to get the ball in quicker because of decreased power alleys.

    I'm not clear where i stand with the issue -i do wonder if it wouldn't help alleviate some of the pressure on the offense to be a little more aggressive in sending guys.
    Yes I agree. He seems to avoid any risky plays at the plate, much more so than Mark Berry did.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25