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Thread: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

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    Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    As of today(July 2, 2013), Bruce has struck out 100 times(2nd in NL and 4th in MLB) and Votto and Choo each have walked 60 and 59 times(1st and 2nd in NL and MLB).

    Bruce: 24BB/365PA(6.6%) 100K/338AB(27.4%)
    Votto: 60BB/379PA(15.8%) 73K/314AB(19.3%)
    Choo: 59BB/383PA(15.4%) 78K/301AB(20.4%)

    For comparison, when Stubbs struck out 205 times in 2011, his ratios of those were 9.3% and 30.1%
    Last edited by junkhead; 07-03-2013 at 08:19 AM.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Exactly what is your point junkhead? Just listing their stats? I can get that from several places. Are you making a comparison or saying Bruce is no good because he strikes out too often? You'll get debate on that. I am just trying to help you see how to make this a quality thread. Take a premise...then add a question or hypothesis to be debated. Here you only show some stat lines and no conclusions othrr than "Bruce strikes out a lot." As is, it isn't really thread worthy and could be in a couple of similar threads as a post. Does that make sense? Tell us your point..

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Bruce's impact > Stubbs despite the similar strikeout numbers.
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Quote Originally Posted by KYBatsFan View Post
    Bruce's impact >>>>>>>>>>>> Stubbs despite the similar strikeout numbers.
    I fixed that for ya...
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    As of today(July 2, 2013), Bruce has struck out 100 times(2nd in NL and 4th in MLB) and Votto and Choo each have walked 60 and 59 times(1st and 2nd in NL and MLB).

    Bruce: 24BB/365PA(6.6%) 100K/338AB(27.4%)
    Votto: 60BB/379PA(15.8%) 73K/314AB(19.3%)
    Choo: 59BB/383PA(15.4%) 78K/301AB(20.4%)

    For comparison, when Stubbs struck out 205 times in 2011, his ratios of those were 9.3% and 30.1%
    Apples and Horse Apples comparison there ^^^

    For comparison the year Stubbs struck out 205 times he had 3 3bs, 15 Hr's and 22 2b's in 681 PAs, for an EBH every 17 times he went to the plate.

    This year Jay Bruce has 365 PAs and 44 EBH for a EBH every 8.2 PA.

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    He might strike out a lot, but he's also delivering on home runs. He's also not sitting at the top of the order almost guaranteeing an out (like Stubbs). I'm not a huge Bruce fan, but it's clear that he adds a lot to the team offensively. Just getting on base doesn't bring guys home, which Bruce can do (along with Phillips).

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Exactly what is your point junkhead? Just listing their stats? I can get that from several places. Are you making a comparison or saying Bruce is no good because he strikes out too often? You'll get debate on that. I am just trying to help you see how to make this a quality thread. Take a premise...then add a question or hypothesis to be debated. Here you only show some stat lines and no conclusions othrr than "Bruce strikes out a lot." As is, it isn't really thread worthy and could be in a couple of similar threads as a post. Does that make sense? Tell us your point..
    It seems like you are a big fan of Bruce. I think you are overreacting.
    I'm just telling an interesting fact that Bruce is a strikeout machine while Votto and Choo are on-base machines and I don't mind strikeout at all as long as the production is there.
    The problem for Stubbs also was not a strikeout but his numbers.

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    As of today(July 20), 36 multi-strikeout games for Bruce.
    His Contact%(71.4%) and SwStr%(14.5%) of this season are the worst in his career.
    As a guide, Stubbs' Contact% and SwStr% of this season are 72.1% and 12.1%.

    *Contact%: The overall percentage of a batter makes contact with when swinging the bat.
    SwStr%: The percentage of total pitches a batter swings and misses on.

    And his OBP(.319) and BB%(6.7%) are very weak.
    Of course, I know that it's difficult for him to become a professional hitter like Votto and Choo and that he will likely remain as just a hacker.
    But,

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Yet he still has an 815 OPS.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    But he has a great haircut.
    "I had a cigar in my back pocket...I didn't wanna break it." - Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Bruce has altered his approach a bit, going the other way more often. He may be missing more as a result of trying to change , that and he still has troubling laying off low outside breaking stuff. I think he'll eventually benefit and continue to develop as a hitter. He is on pace to once again increase his homer totals. I do hope the contact rate increases a tad (and given career norms it should) but the walk rate will likely not improve significantly. Bruce's value is not OBP but the slugging. I guess what I mean is that Bruce seems to be to still be evolving a bit so while the strikeouts are a bit frustrating, I don't think we're seeing Bruce's best by any means yet.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Jay Bruce is not a hacker. Brandon Phillips is a hacker.

    Jay Bruce struggles at times to make contact, but he generally doesn't chase pitches out of the zone. Guys that swing at everything (Phillips), are hackers.

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Jay Bruce is not a hacker. Brandon Phillips is a hacker.

    Jay Bruce struggles at times to make contact, but he generally doesn't chase pitches out of the zone. Guys that swing at everything (Phillips), are hackers.
    *O-Swing%(The percentage of pitches a batter swings at outside the strike zone)
    - Votto: 21.0%, Choo: 22.3%, Bruce: 29.1%, Cozart: 31.0%, Fraizer: 32.1%, Phillips: 38.1% (League average: 30.5%)

    You're right. But, when considering his ability to contact the ball, a little better discipline, if not the level of Votto and Choo, is needed

    *Contact%(The overall percentage of a batter makes contact with when swinging the bat)
    - Cozart: 81.9%, Votto: 79.9%, Choo: 79.7%, Phillips: 79.4%, Fraizer: 76.2%, Bruce: 71.6% (League average: 79.7%)
    Last edited by junkhead; 07-21-2013 at 03:39 PM.

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    "STATS" are like bikinis they show a lot but they don't show everything!! Sry I had to get 1 post in since I signed up today

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    Re: Bruce a new strikeout machine | Votto & Choo on-base machines

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mechanic#10 View Post
    "STATS" are like bikinis they show a lot but they don't show everything!! Sry I had to get 1 post in since I signed up today
    Welcome Mechanic....and that's a pretty good quip to start off with


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