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Thread: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

  1. #16
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    IMO, one thing that we have to keep in mind is that most, if not all, of the high-profile college coaches that have failed in the NBA were system coaches that relied on superior athletes to operate their system in college -- Pitino and (using an NFL example) Spurrier come to mind.

    By contrast, Stevens managed to reach the NC game two years in a row with players recruited to play in the Horizon League. The fact that one of his players went on to become a Lottery Pick doesn't change that. That's what gives Stevens a fighting chance, IMO. If he can accomplish what he accomplished with said "talent", imagine what he can do with some of the best athletes in the World.

    To that end, Ainge's job as GM will mostly make-or-break Stevens from the standpoint of success/winning percentage. The problem now is that the Celtics are kind of in no-man's land, just as the 76ers were until they wisely decided to blow it up on draft day. They are not yet Bobcats/Magic bad. In other words, a high Lottery pick may not be in their future just yet. Given that, IMO, should Stevens "fail" as Celtics coach, I believe it will be largely the result of factors that he has virtually no control over, but that is the risk you take as a coach when you jump to the NBA.

    All of that said, Stevens will be under contract for six years. I'm willing to bet that Stevens lasts longer in Boston than Doc Rivers lasts in LA dealing with Donald Sterling.
    I think Stevens would have been a great hire for a team like Indiana or even Oklahoma City, a small market team that is under the radar. Even if Stevens has some success, Boston and the Lakers are the two flagship teams of the NBA when it comes to reverence, such as the Yankees in baseball. Boston fans were merciless on Rick Pitino, and he had accomplished more in college than what Stevens did heading to the NBA.

    His first year there are no expectations, especially if the Celtics go all in for a top pick in the draft next season. Even if they don't win the Wiggins sweepstakes, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, and Andrew Harrison are nice consolation prizes. This is nothing like the Tim Duncan draft where it was Duncan or bust. If he starts laying the foundation within the next two years and setting up a nice nucleus, unless he wins a championship, I see him getting Rick Carlisle'd in year three (replaced with a NBA experienced coach, in that case Larry Brown)

    I'm a Celtics fan and I am kinda surprised George Karl wasn't the pick. The job he did with the Nuggets was remarkable and if the Celtics are looking to rebuild with young talent, Karl would have been the guy, even if he has a Larry Brown track record of alienating people.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I think Stevens would have been a great hire for a team like Indiana or even Oklahoma City, a small market team that is under the radar. Even if Stevens has some success, Boston and the Lakers are the two flagship teams of the NBA when it comes to reverence, such as the Yankees in baseball. Boston fans were merciless on Rick Pitino, and he had accomplished more in college than what Stevens did heading to the NBA.

    His first year there are no expectations, especially if the Celtics go all in for a top pick in the draft next season. Even if they don't win the Wiggins sweepstakes, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, and Andrew Harrison are nice consolation prizes. This is nothing like the Tim Duncan draft where it was Duncan or bust. If he starts laying the foundation within the next two years and setting up a nice nucleus, unless he wins a championship, I see him getting Rick Carlisle'd in year three (replaced with a NBA experienced coach, in that case Larry Brown)

    I'm a Celtics fan and I am kinda surprised George Karl wasn't the pick. The job he did with the Nuggets was remarkable and if the Celtics are looking to rebuild with young talent, Karl would have been the guy, even if he has a Larry Brown track record of alienating people.
    I could definitely see that scenario being the case which would be a shame in my mind. It was a shame when it happened to Carlisle.

    I will say Stevens personality is much more likely to let the Boston media criticism roll off his shoulders than Pitino was. I think this will help quite a bit. Think Terry Francona vs Bobby Valentine.

    You're not likely to hear Stevens yell "Larry Bird is not walking through that door."
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 07-05-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I could definitely see that scenario being the case which would be a shame in my mind. It was a shame when it happened to Carlisle.

    I will say Stevens personality is much more likely to let the Boston media criticism roll off his shoulders than Pitino was. I think this will help quite a bit. Think Terry Francona vs Bobby Valentine.

    You're not likely to hear Stevens yell "Larry Bird is not walking through that door."
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Stevens has ever had to deal with criticism at the college level. He's been successful at Butler and a media darling due to winning. Hard to tell how that will affect him when he starts losing.

    Stevens is just somebody who will get the Celtics through at least two years of rebuilding. Once the nucleus is set, he will get a nice payday and head back to the college game, likely at either UK or Louisville.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Stevens has ever had to deal with criticism at the college level. He's been successful at Butler and a media darling due to winning. Hard to tell how that will affect him when he starts losing.

    Stevens is just somebody who will get the Celtics through at least two years of rebuilding. Once the nucleus is set, he will get a nice payday and head back to the college game, likely at either UK or Louisville.
    That's definitely true so I'm speaking more hypothetically.

    Media criticism in Indianapolis, even of a larger program like Indiana is probably muted compared to Boston where there are numerous media outlets and they're all looking for an edge somewhere/somehow. He'll undoubtedly face more scrutiny and have to "prove something" to the Boston press, whereas in Indianapolis, Butler either gets the benefit of the doubt, or is ignored if they're in a rare off year.

    All that being said, I think it's more likely that the scenario you proposed will come true. That's likely the case no matter who they hired. The advantage of hiring Stevens, as opposed to say George Karl, is there's a lot less fuss if you fire him after two years.
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That's definitely true so I'm speaking more hypothetically.

    Media criticism in Indianapolis, even of a larger program like Indiana is probably muted compared to Boston where there are numerous media outlets and they're all looking for an edge somewhere/somehow. He'll undoubtedly face more scrutiny and have to "prove something" to the Boston press, whereas in Indianapolis, Butler either gets the benefit of the doubt, or is ignored if they're in a rare off year.

    All that being said, I think it's more likely that the scenario you proposed will come true. That's likely the case no matter who they hired. The advantage of hiring Stevens, as opposed to say George Karl, is there's a lot less fuss if you fire him after two years.
    I know the reason why Stevens is leaving Butler, but whenever these decisions are made I just shake my head. Stevens had pretty much cemented his legacy at Butler and pretty much guaranteed himself a lifetime contract. Couple that with Butler going to the Big East and the revenue stream coming in stands to gain quite a bit. He wasn't going to get a NBA type contract, but at what point is a "lifetime" contract getting $2m+ a season good enough?

    What I don't quite understand is Butler proved they could win with the premier college programs. Programs like Xavier, Memphis and Gonzaga proved that you could recruit the big name player. They may not get the #1 prospect, but they could get good enough players to compete on the national scale.

    I guess in the end Stevens walked away from a great, steady, well paying job. He took a better paying job in a pressure cooker where the odds are already stacked against him.

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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I know the reason why Stevens is leaving Butler, but whenever these decisions are made I just shake my head. Stevens had pretty much cemented his legacy at Butler and pretty much guaranteed himself a lifetime contract. Couple that with Butler going to the Big East and the revenue stream coming in stands to gain quite a bit. He wasn't going to get a NBA type contract, but at what point is a "lifetime" contract getting $2m+ a season good enough?

    What I don't quite understand is Butler proved they could win with the premier college programs. Programs like Xavier, Memphis and Gonzaga proved that you could recruit the big name player. They may not get the #1 prospect, but they could get good enough players to compete on the national scale.

    I guess in the end Stevens walked away from a great, steady, well paying job. He took a better paying job in a pressure cooker where the odds are already stacked against him.
    Just like anyone, Stevens probably wants to prove himself on the highest level just like his players do. He could probably stay at Butler forever but he probably wants to see if he can coach in the NBA.
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I know the reason why Stevens is leaving Butler, but whenever these decisions are made I just shake my head. Stevens had pretty much cemented his legacy at Butler and pretty much guaranteed himself a lifetime contract. Couple that with Butler going to the Big East and the revenue stream coming in stands to gain quite a bit. He wasn't going to get a NBA type contract, but at what point is a "lifetime" contract getting $2m+ a season good enough?

    What I don't quite understand is Butler proved they could win with the premier college programs. Programs like Xavier, Memphis and Gonzaga proved that you could recruit the big name player. They may not get the #1 prospect, but they could get good enough players to compete on the national scale.

    I guess in the end Stevens walked away from a great, steady, well paying job. He took a better paying job in a pressure cooker where the odds are already stacked against him.
    It would take him around 20 years at Butler to earn what this contract will pay him. Could be even better if he's fired after 4 years, he still gets the rest of the contract and will, LITERALLY, have his pick of the top college jobs available when and if he leaves the pro game.

    It was a no-brainer.
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That's definitely true so I'm speaking more hypothetically.

    Media criticism in Indianapolis, even of a larger program like Indiana is probably muted compared to Boston where there are numerous media outlets and they're all looking for an edge somewhere/somehow. He'll undoubtedly face more scrutiny and have to "prove something" to the Boston press, whereas in Indianapolis, Butler either gets the benefit of the doubt, or is ignored if they're in a rare off year.

    All that being sasid, I think it's more likely that the scenario you proposed will come true. That's likely the case no matter who they hired. The advantage of hiring Stevens, as opposed to say George Karl, is there's a lot less fuss if you fire him after two years.
    IMO, the pressure and scrutiny at Kentucky (if the coach is not succeeding) is greater than lots of pro cities. Perhaps not Boston, but it's close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I know the reason why Stevens is leaving Butler, but whenever these decisions are made I just shake my head. Stevens had pretty much cemented his legacy at Butler and pretty much guaranteed himself a lifetime contract. Couple that with Butler going to the Big East and the revenue stream coming in stands to gain quite a bit. He wasn't going to get a NBA type contract, but at what point is a "lifetime" contract getting $2m+ a season good enough?

    What I don't quite understand is Butler proved they could win with the premier college programs. Programs like Xavier, Memphis and Gonzaga proved that you could recruit the big name player. They may not get the #1 prospect, but they could get good enough players to compete on the national scale.

    I guess in the end Stevens walked away from a great, steady, well paying job. He took a better paying job in a pressure cooker where the odds are already stacked against him.
    Competitive drive. Always looking for that next challenge.

    Or maybe it's a more calculated move . Maybe he's thinking exactly what a lot of us are thinking. Stevens seems pretty practical maybe he thinks he'll work one NBA contract, make a ton of money and then come back to college. Maybe he thought this was the only way he could leave Butler without being hated. I know a lot of Butler grads that would have been furious if he left for another college but their attitude about him going to the Celtics is pretty much "Well it's the NBA, he had to give it a shot."

    So he gets out of Butler still beloved and if the NBA doesn't work he can move onto a higher profile school without the "blood on his hands" of going there directly.

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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    IMO, the pressure and scrutiny at Kentucky (if the coach is not succeeding) is greater than lots of pro cities. Perhaps not Boston, but it's close.
    I'd agree that's probably true WMR. Neither the Colts or Pacers are as popular statewide as IU, but they are popular and I think that takes a lot of pressure off IU. At Kentucky, pretty much the entire state's eyes are on them 100% of the time.

    Even Louisville's often focused on UK if for nothing more than comparison's sake.
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    Re: Brad Stevens to the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'd agree that's probably true WMR. Neither the Colts or Pacers are as popular statewide as IU, but they are popular and I think that takes a lot of pressure off IU. e.
    The Peyton era coming along at the same time as the Mike D/Denium Shirt era makes this statement wrong IMO, it's a Colts first state now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    The Peyton era coming along at the same time as the Mike D/Denium Shirt era makes this statement wrong IMO, it's a Colts first state now.
    It's a front-running state. More so than Ohio or the other surrounding states from what I can tell.

    The one that annoys me are the IU hoops/ND FB fans. Pick a school dude. Most IU people don't even follow the football program.
    Last edited by gilpdawg; 07-07-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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