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Thread: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

  1. #1
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...-star-reserves

    Reds that got the nod:
    Joey Votto (starter)
    Shin-Soo Choo
    Todd Frazier
    Homer Bailey

    Reds that didn't:
    Brandon Phillips
    Mat Latos
    Mike Leake
    Aroldis Chapman

    discuss

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Phillips get jobbed. Seriously...Carpenter and Scutaro? Brandon must really have po'd a lot of managers, players and writers in other cities.
    Frazier shows how Reds players can be more appreciated outside than inside Redsland. Reading comments on RZ you'd think he was worthless...
    Glad this isn't official because I thought a lot of the picks were off base.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Phillips get jobbed. Seriously...Carpenter and Scutaro? Brandon must really have po'd a lot of managers, players and writers in other cities.
    Frazier shows how Reds players can be more appreciated outside than inside Redsland. Reading comments on RZ you'd think he was worthless...
    Glad this isn't official because I thought a lot of the picks were off base.
    Why were they off base? Let's remember, every team needs at least one representative.

    Let's get to Phillips. He currently sits 2nd in WAR for second baseman at 1.9 (with Carpenter at 4.2!). Of course Daniel Murphy and Marco Scutaro are at 1.8 and 1.7 each. So at the very least, WAR suggests it is awfully close. Scutaro is the better hitter, Phillips the better defender. I would lean toward Phillips, but I do think it is close enough to say that Phillips certainly isn't being jobbed. If Matt Carpenter didn't make it, he would be getting jobbed.

    With Frazier, he is benefiting from a weak 3B class and UZR hating Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has the worst UZR of all qualified third baseman. I would easily choose Zimmerman over Frazier. I don't even have to think about it.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    This is so out of whack, it's laughable. Sabremetrics has forever destroyed the possibility of sensible baseball discussion.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    If it gets to the point where Todd Frazier and his season is all star caliber, they should just borrow one of the AL 3rd baseman. They have too many as is.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    This is so out of whack, it's laughable. Sabremetrics has forever destroyed the possibility of sensible baseball discussion.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Plus, three Cardinals!
    Sorry, I had to stop right there, with such glee shown for naming Cardinals.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    This is a perfect example of why WAR is great at the macro level and terrible at the micro level.

    Just an embarrassing article, really too many issues to discuss, imo.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Those who disagree with the article, care to give any actual reasons?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Those who disagree with the article, care to give any actual reasons?
    2 words ---> Todd Frazier

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    This is so out of whack, it's laughable. Sabremetrics has forever destroyed the possibility of sensible baseball discussion.
    Comments like this are what destroy sensible baseball discussion.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    2 words ---> Todd Frazier
    He is drastically outperforming 'stars' like Pablo Sandoval and Chase Headley, has pretty much the same offensive stats with more power/better D than Michael Young and David Freese, and Ryan Zimmerman has been awful at third base this year. I'd probably go with Alvarez over Frazier for his power numbers and his defense that isn't so horrible, but just because Reds fans have chosen Frazier as a whipping boy doesn't make him useless. And as they said, they factored in 2012 as well.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Those who disagree with the article, care to give any actual reasons?
    Frer, I've never liked picking All-Stars solely on this years stats. Guys who can put together a few good months at the beginning of the season don't deserve to make the team if that's all they have ever done. It's the All-Star game, not the who's hot right now game.

    Long with WAR only exasperates the problem.

    Phillips is an All-Star. Bryce Harper is an All-Star. Jay Bruce is an All-Star. Homer Bailey is not. Marco Scutero is not. Gerald Parra is not. Todd Frazier is not. Jason Grilli and Trevor Rosenthal are not.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    I notice this article refers to Frazier's second half 2012 numbers. When I grew up, All Star voting related to this year's stats.

    Frazier does get credit for his high UZR rating this year, a real surprise to me. However, Headley's is even better. Overall, Frazier as an all star this year is a real reach.

    As for Phillips, despite some pedestrian hitting numbers, he has a lot going for him this year. All the RBIs (not a Sabermetric stat, but appealing to baseball fans generally), his spectacular plays which get a lot of notice on highlight shows, and of course the whole Twitter and personality thing. He's now a "known" player.

    I hope BP gets voted on the team, but if not his RBIs should get him a reserve spot. I think the article was generous giving the Reds four all stars, my guess is they will get three in the real world. Maybe even two.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-04-2013 at 03:06 PM.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    2 words ---> Todd Frazier
    I'm not certain I would've picked Frazier either. As they said in the article:

    Frazier was a bit of a point of contention as the backup 3B for our squad. Votes were split between Frazier's power and OBP (and that's it), Pedro Alvarez's power (and that's it), Ryan Zimmerman's on-again-off-again David Wright impersonation, and Chase Headley's down-but-not-out season in San Diego. In the end, Frazier might be the best hitter of the bunch when you look at both 2013 and the second half of 2012.
    Over the last calendar year (which is a close enough window for stat accumulation,) Frazier is 8/10 in wOBA (.331). Hard to say anything about his fielding but I'd guesstimate it at averagish to above average.

    I could think of 3-4 other guys I would've taken before Frazier.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


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