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Thread: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

  1. #16
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Frazier certainly isn't my whipping boy. He is an average mlb third baseman. Nothing more. Nothing less. At this stage in his career he is not, under any circumstances, an All-Star. And I want no part of a system that elects him so.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    If the Reds do get four all stars this year, I assume Choo or Bruce (not both) will get on and Chapman.

    I doubt it will happen. But if so, it will be because MLB wants Chapman in the game.

  4. #18
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Scott Rolen made the All Star Team in 2011. If that is reason alone to not discount Todd Frazier, I don't know what is.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  5. #19
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Frazier certainly isn't my whipping boy. He is an average mlb third baseman. Nothing more. Nothing less. At this stage in his career he is not, under any circumstances, an All-Star. And I want no part of a system that elects him so.
    Great! But there wasn't a "system" that picked him. It was a group of dudes.

    This is pretty clear if you read the article.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  6. #20
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Scott Rolen made the All Star Team in 2011. If that is reason alone to not discount Todd Frazier, I don't know what is.
    Rolen made it that year because a number of third basemen ahead of him either turned it down or were injured. Rolen himself said he had no business going on merit.

  7. #21
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Great! But there wasn't a "system" that picked him. It was a group of dudes.

    This is pretty clear if you read the article.
    If it will make you feel better, replace "system" with "process." The point is the same: Frazier is not an all-star.

  8. #22
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Rolen made it that year because a number of third basemen ahead of him either turned it down or were injured. Rolen himself said he had no business going on merit.
    Last I checked it still says AS next to his 2011 year on his page at Baseball-Reference.com, not ASbcEEWIOAG(All Star because Everyone Else Was Injured Or A Girl
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  9. #23
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    This is a perfect example of why WAR is great at the macro level and terrible at the micro level.

    Just an embarrassing article, really too many issues to discuss, imo.
    I am big on sabermetrics.

    WAR has it's purposes. Finality isn't one of them IMO. WAR is a nice guide to start the discussion for me.

    I really only looked at the Reds guys.

    I fully believe you can make a strong argument to include Homer Bailey on the All-Star team.

    Here is where he ranks in the National League:
    WAR: 5
    Innings: 10
    ERA: 29
    FIP: 5
    xFIP: 3
    K%: 7
    BB%: 14
    K/BB: 8
    WHIP: 11

    Outside of ERA, he is among the best pitchers in the league in nearly every other category.

    Would I put him on there roster? I honestly don't know. But he should be in the discussion.

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  11. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am big on sabermetrics.

    WAR has it's purposes. Finality isn't one of them IMO. WAR is a nice guide to start the discussion for me.

    I really only looked at the Reds guys.

    I fully believe you can make a strong argument to include Homer Bailey on the All-Star team.

    Here is where he ranks in the National League:
    WAR: 5
    Innings: 10
    ERA: 29
    FIP: 5
    xFIP: 3
    K%: 7
    BB%: 14
    K/BB: 8
    WHIP: 11

    Outside of ERA, he is among the best pitchers in the league in nearly every other category.

    Would I put him on there roster? I honestly don't know. But he should be in the discussion.
    If there was room for one Red's pitcher, would it be Bailey, Latos or Leake?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #25
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    If it will make you feel better, replace "system" with "process." The point is the same: Frazier is not an all-star.
    I feel the same as I did prior to reading your post:

    • Frazier wouldn't be on my All Star team.
    • The "tell your stats to shut up" commentary is tired

    Prediction: I'll continue to feel this way after you NEXT post too.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #26
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    This is a perfect example of why WAR is great at the macro level and terrible at the micro level.
    Searching the linked article for the word "WAR" yields two results on the page: one talking about Jean Segura and the first three letters of the word "warm" under Jose Fernandez.

    The word "ERA" is used 6 times.

    UZR, wRC, a "slash line", home runs, OBP, FIP, walk rate, ERA- are peppered throughout. In other words, quite a mix of traditional and "advanced" statistics.

    I'm not sure what WAR has to do with it. It certainly had nothing to do with picking Todd Frazier.

    Just an embarrassing article, really too many issues to discuss, imo.
    I disagree. I think there's a lot to discuss for those interested in discussion.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  14. #27
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am big on sabermetrics.

    WAR has it's purposes. Finality isn't one of them IMO. WAR is a nice guide to start the discussion for me.

    I really only looked at the Reds guys.

    I fully believe you can make a strong argument to include Homer Bailey on the All-Star team.

    Here is where he ranks in the National League:
    WAR: 5
    Innings: 10
    ERA: 29
    FIP: 5
    xFIP: 3
    K%: 7
    BB%: 14
    K/BB: 8
    WHIP: 11

    Outside of ERA, he is among the best pitchers in the league in nearly every other category.

    Would I put him on there roster? I honestly don't know. But he should be in the discussion.
    Bailey has underperformed his peripherals (WAR) his entire career. Just like Arroyo has overperformed his peripherals his whole career. I think with those two, we have reached the point where we can say their ERA, WHIP, Etc, are a better reflection of their true talent level than their peripherals. Basically, both are very nice middle rotation pitchers.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #28
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If there was room for one Red's pitcher, would it be Bailey, Latos or Leake?
    It wouldn't be Leake, I know that. Bailey has better peripherals than Latos. Latos has been a bit better/luckier (off the top of my head, I don't know if this is true, but his LOB% is better, so perhaps relievers have done better with his runners than Bailey) with runners on base which shows up in the ERA, the only stat that Latos has been better than Bailey this season.

  16. #29
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If there was room for one Red's pitcher, would it be Bailey, Latos or Leake?
    I would go with Bailey.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  17. #30
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I feel the same as I did prior to reading your post:

    • Frazier wouldn't be on my All Star team.
    • The "tell your stats to shut up" commentary is tired

    Prediction: I'll continue to feel this way after you NEXT post too.
    Dang Norm...you just got bullet-pointed!!!!!

    Frazier wouldn't be on my All Star team either. But I certainly am not offended by the thought that he was in the conversation, and actually picked after much debate.


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