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Thread: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

  1. #76
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Rany Jazayerli and Joe Sheehan were talking about this on their podcast this week. Sheehan thinks a player should have more of a track record before being considered an All Star. Jazayerli thinks the opposite. I'm in the Sheehan camp. It's the All Star game. Not "guys with a hot streak in a small sample" game. Jack Armstrong started the 1990 game for the NL and didn't even make the postseason rotation. He wasn't good. He had one half of a good season. A system that rewards those type of seasons is flawed, IMO.
    So is a system that gives spots to 30-something guys with bum knees and batting .220 but are voted in because they're still popular from when they were good five years prior.

    I'd rather get some new blood in once in a while and have it merit-based rather than popularity-based.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #77
    Stat geek...and proud
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    So is a system that gives spots to 30-something guys with bum knees and batting .220 but are voted in because they're still popular from when they were good five years prior.

    I'd rather get some new blood in once in a while and have it merit-based rather than popularity-based.
    That is true as well. It should be somewhere in between. When I pick my All Stars I tend to look at the past 3 seasons. That takes out the Ryan Howards of the world and the Bryan LaHairs of the world.

  4. #78
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Rany Jazayerli and Joe Sheehan were talking about this on their podcast this week. Sheehan thinks a player should have more of a track record before being considered an All Star. Jazayerli thinks the opposite. I'm in the Sheehan camp. It's the All Star game. Not "guys with a hot streak in a small sample" game. Jack Armstrong started the 1990 game for the NL and didn't even make the postseason rotation. He wasn't good. He had one half of a good season. A system that rewards those type of seasons is flawed, IMO.
    But what system is that? I'm not aware of a true system in place which determines between small sample stars or aging vets.

    For example, the players voted Lahair in. How should that be rectified?

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Frazier is 4th in the NL in OPS among third basemen (granted it's a distant 4th), and everything says he's been a great defender this year. I've been one of his harshest critics this year, but the NL 3rd baseman suck. It's not as crazy of a thought as it seems.
    Last edited by reds44; 07-05-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Run Prevention Unit?

    "Hey, can I get a new Run Prevention Unit over to GABP? Our existing one is on the fritz. Oh and while you're at it, bring over a new run creation unit -we could use an upgrade".
    Mock if you must but that's what ERA is measuring.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  8. #81
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Mock if you must but that's what ERA is measuring.
    Run Prevention Unit

    Love it, that's exactly what it is.

  9. #82
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Law & Order: Run Prevention Unit
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  11. #83
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If there was room for one Red's pitcher, would it be Bailey, Latos or Leake?
    Great question.

    I'd pick Latos over Bailey.

    As of today, they are within 1 IP of each other.
    Latos has been more consistently dominatating.
    Latos ERA 3.03 Homer 3.57

    A half a run per game is a big difference.

    Homer has the edge on WHIP though (1.06 vs 1.20)

    Both are having good years, I just think Latos has made a bigger contribution, and I know people hate the W-L record, but it is also reflected in that. Latos has an edge overall, IMO.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    But what system is that? I'm not aware of a true system in place which determines between small sample stars or aging vets.

    For example, the players voted Lahair in. How should that be rectified?
    By letting me pick the teams.

  14. #85
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Frazier is 4th in the NL in OPS among third basemen (granted it's a distant 4th), and everything says he's been a great defender this year. I've been one of his harshest critics this year, but the NL 3rd baseman suck. It's not as crazy of a thought as it seems.
    Between Valbuena, Chris Johnson and Freese, they are a collective 25ish PAs from pushing him to 7th. Freese and Valbuena are only 3 and change PAs under the requirement and Johnson is 17.5, but way ahead of Frazier in OPS.

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Rany Jazayerli and Joe Sheehan were talking about this on their podcast this week. Sheehan thinks a player should have more of a track record before being considered an All Star. Jazayerli thinks the opposite. I'm in the Sheehan camp. It's the All Star game. Not "guys with a hot streak in a small sample" game. Jack Armstrong started the 1990 game for the NL and didn't even make the postseason rotation. He wasn't good. He had one half of a good season. A system that rewards those type of seasons is flawed, IMO.
    A famous Bill James article in this scenario used the hot Toby Harrah as an example of someone who was getting shouts of he belongs in!! All while in reality he was just having a few good months and would regress and wasn't a big enough star to ride that streak to a starting slot

    He did regress, he didn't start

  16. #87
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Between Valbuena, Chris Johnson and Freese, they are a collective 25ish PAs from pushing him to 7th. Freese and Valbuena are only 3 and change PAs under the requirement and Johnson is 17.5, but way ahead of Frazier in OPS.
    Some years just aren't good years for a position concerning the AS game. Behind David Wright, one could argue that there isn't a deserving back up for the NL-especially if in season performance is heavily weighted. Certainly the AL holds a big advantage over the NL at third. But then again both Fraizier are on pace for 4 WAR seasons despite their relatively unspectacular ways of doing it. That's legit all-star territory IMHO.

    Despite the AL getting an indisputable check for thirdbase concerning advantages, the NL backup will probably win the game for the NL. maybe Frazier will get selected and get a walk off hit?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  17. #88
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    A famous Bill James article in this scenario used the hot Toby Harrah as an example of someone who was getting shouts of he belongs in!! All while in reality he was just having a few good months and would regress and wasn't a big enough star to ride that streak to a starting slot

    He did regress, he didn't start
    Toby Harrah, that's a blast from the past. It seems he was in every pack of cards I bought as a kid.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Law & Order: Run Prevention Unit
    Solid.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    In football, they call all the offensive players on the field during a field goal attempt, "the field goal unit." Every player plays an important part, but the kicker is the one who gets credit for the points, and rightfully so.

    Just because others are involved in preventing runs on defense, doesn't mean that the pitcher shouldn't be the guy held most responsible for prevention or lack of prevention of runs.

    Yes, the entire defense is the run prevention unit, but the person who is repsonsible for most of it is the guy who starts each pitch holding the ball on the mound. Claiming that because others are involved in run prevention, we should ignore ERA, or diminish its importance, is a classic over reaction that many amateur saber guys make.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


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