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Thread: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

  1. #121
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Is this a joke post?
    Not a joke at all. This thread evolved exactly how I expected. The same path most ORG threads take.

    Agreed?
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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  3. #122
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Arroyo's ERA as a Red:

    Code:
    2006	3.29
    2007	4.23
    2008	4.77
    2009	3.84
    2010	3.88
    2011	5.07
    2012	3.74
    2013	3.51
    He had his best year when the Reds Lopez at SS, EE at 3B and Dunn in Left.
    He had his worst year, the year three Reds won Gold Gloves.
    2009, the year he improved his ERA by almost a full run, the Reds still had EE at 3B, Gonzales at SS and Gomes in LF. The real transformation to the Reds defense happened in 2010, a year after Arroyo's improved ERA.
    That's not accurate and this isn't the first rodeo for this conversation.

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=42

    BTW in 2008, the Reds defense was ranked 24th in the league (-32 runs) and it was ranked 4th in 2009 (+48 runs) for an improvement of 70 runs. I wonder how this impacted the only thing that matters for the Reds?
    Last edited by jojo; 07-08-2013 at 12:09 AM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #123
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Peripherals don't measure all the things that matter in terms of run prevention, they are incomplete, just as the term suggests. Peripheral, not the full story.

    My argument is that history tells us that truly elite pitchers put up elite ERA's no matter what else is happening around them. They overcome luck and other issues to make sure that very few runners cross the plate. Bailey has yet to do that. He may. I hope he does. But until then, he's a potential elite pitcher, not an actual one.
    The term is "peripheral" -- meaning "not central". I don't think it actually refers to their partial nature. Rather, it refers to their status in the mainstream vocabulary of baseball, which is decidedly off the beaten path.

    All statistics are partial, ERA included. You have chosen an arbitrary stat to run with "historically" here instead of focusing on what Homer's situation is this year.
    Last edited by RedEye; 07-08-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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  5. #124
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    That's not accurate and this isn't the first rodeo for this conversation.

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=42

    BTW in 2008, the Reds defense was ranked 24th in the league (-32 runs) and it was ranked 4th in 2009 (+48 runs) for an improvement of 70 runs. I wonder how this impacted the only thing that matters for the Reds?
    Arroyo's ERA+ as a Reds

    2006 142
    2007 109
    2008 92
    2009 110
    2010 105
    2011 78
    2012 111
    2013 115
    You see a 20 point drop from 2007 to 2008, then a 20 point gain from 2008 to 2009. Otherwise pretty steady except for his first year and his injured year.

    If the defense helped him so much in 2009, why did it not hurt him in 2007?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #125
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond the Box Score All-Stars: Interesting Reds choices and non-choices

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Arroyo's ERA+ as a Reds



    You see a 20 point drop from 2007 to 2008, then a 20 point gain from 2008 to 2009. Otherwise pretty steady except for his first year and his injured year.

    If the defense helped him so much in 2009, why did it not hurt him in 2007?
    He had an era almost a full run worse in 2007 then his lucky year in 2006 despite being almost the same pitcher. His defense did not help him.

    His 2007 just shows how lucky he was in 2006. It would seem that ERA isn't very good at illustrating what is most important i.e. a pitcher's ability to limit runs scored.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Tom Servo (07-08-2013)


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