Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 56

Thread: Wait, what?

  1. #16
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Perhaps it's just a by-product of heavy participation in a baseball board, but "sabermetrics" is discussed and believed in about 1,000% more on this board than it is among baseball fans I know in real life. (And yes, that's a made-up stat, and I know 1,000% isn't a real thing).
    OK...and?

    I find the OPSs and the WARs and all that stuff very tiresome, it seems no one here just talks the enjoyment and art of baseball. So occasionally I'll take a little potshot across the bow to relieve the pressure.
    I find the constant cheap shots at "sabermetrics" tiresome and contrary to the concept of discussion and to be honest, baiting.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  2. Likes:

    gilpdawg (07-04-2013), jojo (07-04-2013), Tom Servo (07-04-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,939

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    It seems to me they are much more difficult to compute as well. To figure batting average I simply need at-bats and hits. To figure something like wOBA, well I can't. I admit that. To figure ERA I need earned runs and innings pitched. To figure xFIP, well I can't. I admit that. (And I think they figure xFIP incorrectly but that is another story).

    So, if I am watching a game with friends or in a game thread, I am more likely to stick with the older stats, simply out of convenience.
    When was the last time you chose to figure out a batting average on your own? I don't know about you, but I go to fangraphs or baseballreference for my stats. They do all of the math for me. So not being able to figure out FIP/xFIP/wOBA/anything else on the fly doesn't really matter much.

  5. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (07-04-2013), RedEye (07-04-2013)

  6. #18
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,824

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    When was the last time you chose to figure out a batting average on your own? I don't know about you, but I go to fangraphs or baseballreference for my stats. They do all of the math for me. So not being able to figure out FIP/xFIP/wOBA/anything else on the fly doesn't really matter much.
    Tonight. Thanks for asking.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  7. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Then go post on another board.
    As useful as this post is Redsfan, I would advise against it.

    There are some people around who appreciate baseball as poetry not math.

    There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).

    Finally, there are those who have a good mix of the two. IMO, these are the guys to pay the most attention to and learn something. The advanced stats aren't the final verdict but they can be a useful tool if presented in a positive way.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  8. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,939

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Tonight. Thanks for asking.
    Where did you go to find out how many hits and at bats a guy had that didn't also have the average right there? I would advise you avoid going there again because they are clearly missing the boat on this whole programming thing.

  9. #21
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,093

    Re: Wait, what?

    There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).

    ...

    The advanced stats aren't the final verdict but they can be a useful tool if presented in a positive way.
    Long exasperated sigh.

    On the first part...name one. Literally, name one. Otherwise, baseless generalizations such as this are needlessly incindiary. And, I think, unbelievebly wrong.

    On the second part, I don't even know what that means.

  10. Likes:

    gilpdawg (07-04-2013), Raisor (07-04-2013), RedEye (07-04-2013), reds1869 (07-05-2013), Tom Servo (07-04-2013)

  11. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,939

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).
    Yep. They came of the womb with a calculator in one hand and a pocket protector in the other. They grew up punching away at that calculator watching others play little league. When they weren't doing that, they were punching away on their calculator as they watched TWIB half heartedly wondering when they would break out into a discussion about why sac flies don't count against batting average but ground outs to first base that score a run do count against batting average.

    That is exactly how it goes.


  12. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yep. They came of the womb with a calculator in one hand and a pocket protector in the other. They grew up punching away at that calculator watching others play little league. When they weren't doing that, they were punching away on their calculator as they watched TWIB half heartedly wondering when they would break out into a discussion about why sac flies don't count against batting average but ground outs to first base that score a run do count against batting average.

    That is exactly how it goes.

    For some, it possibly happened this way I guess. For others they've arrived in the same spot by a different route. Either way, the whole "picking sides" a la Sharks vs Jets is silly and arrogant. Both approaches have merit.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  13. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (07-04-2013)

  14. #24
    Stat geek...and proud
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Paris, OH
    Posts
    2,616

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    It appears we are getting to the point where those who have determined that they don't like "the sabermetrics guys" are drawing a line in the sand and declaring a pre-emptive war against them. It's essentially a form of trolling; saying things to get a rise out of posters and cause arguments. I think we're better than it.
    I've been saying that for weeks. It's like a nerd witch hunt.

  15. Likes:

    RedEye (07-04-2013)

  16. #25
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,939

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    For some, it possibly happened this way I guess. For others they've arrived in the same spot by a different route. Either way, the whole "picking sides" a la Sharks vs Jets is silly and arrogant. Both approaches have merit.
    Both approaches have merit. Using only one misses an awful lot.

  17. Likes:

    Always Red (07-04-2013), Old school 1983 (07-04-2013), reds1869 (07-05-2013)

  18. #26
    Stat geek...and proud
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Paris, OH
    Posts
    2,616

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Perhaps it's just a by-product of heavy participation in a baseball board, but "sabermetrics" is discussed and believed in about 1,000% more on this board than it is among baseball fans I know in real life. (And yes, that's a made-up stat, and I know 1,000% isn't a real thing).

    I find the OPSs and the WARs and all that stuff very tiresome, it seems no one here just talks the enjoyment and art of baseball. So occasionally I'll take a little potshot across the bow to relieve the pressure.
    If you don't want to talk about it.... then start a thread talking about what you want to talk about. Don't troll. Contribute to the board instead of hurting it.

  19. Likes:

    Raisor (07-04-2013), RedEye (07-04-2013), Revering4Blue (07-04-2013)

  20. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Both approaches have merit. Using only one misses an awful lot.
    Thanks for re-stating my point so concisely. I get wordy sometimes.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  21. #28
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,235

    Re: Wait, what?

    Do not feed the troll.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  22. #29
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,608

    Re: Wait, what?

    As Keats famously wrote:

    When old age shall this generation waste,
    Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
    Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
    Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."


    Appreciating this game an be taken through either a statistically supported approach or an experiential, more emotional approach. Both bring the truth and beauty of the game to the user, even if they can't be used to truly sway someone away from their approach.

  23. Likes:

    marcshoe (07-04-2013), TSJ55 (07-04-2013)

  24. #30
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,824

    Re: Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Where did you go to find out how many hits and at bats a guy had that didn't also have the average right there? I would advise you avoid going there again because they are clearly missing the boat on this whole programming thing.
    I figured out Shaun Ellis' ERA as a starter after his first three innings of the game. His ERA in the box score included his time as a reliever. So I had to take his numbers as a starter at the time of the game and compute that number.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25