1. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by redssince75
Perhaps it's just a by-product of heavy participation in a baseball board, but "sabermetrics" is discussed and believed in about 1,000% more on this board than it is among baseball fans I know in real life. (And yes, that's a made-up stat, and I know 1,000% isn't a real thing).
OK...and?

I find the OPSs and the WARs and all that stuff very tiresome, it seems no one here just talks the enjoyment and art of baseball. So occasionally I'll take a little potshot across the bow to relieve the pressure.
I find the constant cheap shots at "sabermetrics" tiresome and contrary to the concept of discussion and to be honest, baiting.

2. Likes:

gilpdawg (07-04-2013),jojo (07-04-2013),Tom Servo (07-04-2013)

4. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by texasdave
It seems to me they are much more difficult to compute as well. To figure batting average I simply need at-bats and hits. To figure something like wOBA, well I can't. I admit that. To figure ERA I need earned runs and innings pitched. To figure xFIP, well I can't. I admit that. (And I think they figure xFIP incorrectly but that is another story).

So, if I am watching a game with friends or in a game thread, I am more likely to stick with the older stats, simply out of convenience.
When was the last time you chose to figure out a batting average on your own? I don't know about you, but I go to fangraphs or baseballreference for my stats. They do all of the math for me. So not being able to figure out FIP/xFIP/wOBA/anything else on the fly doesn't really matter much.

5. Likes:

*BaseClogger* (07-04-2013),RedEye (07-04-2013)

6. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by dougdirt
When was the last time you chose to figure out a batting average on your own? I don't know about you, but I go to fangraphs or baseballreference for my stats. They do all of the math for me. So not being able to figure out FIP/xFIP/wOBA/anything else on the fly doesn't really matter much.

7. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by LoganBuck
Then go post on another board.
As useful as this post is Redsfan, I would advise against it.

There are some people around who appreciate baseball as poetry not math.

There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).

Finally, there are those who have a good mix of the two. IMO, these are the guys to pay the most attention to and learn something. The advanced stats aren't the final verdict but they can be a useful tool if presented in a positive way.

8. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by texasdave
Where did you go to find out how many hits and at bats a guy had that didn't also have the average right there? I would advise you avoid going there again because they are clearly missing the boat on this whole programming thing.

9. Re: Wait, what?

There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).

...

The advanced stats aren't the final verdict but they can be a useful tool if presented in a positive way.
Long exasperated sigh.

On the first part...name one. Literally, name one. Otherwise, baseless generalizations such as this are needlessly incindiary. And, I think, unbelievebly wrong.

On the second part, I don't even know what that means.

10. Likes:

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11. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by TSJ55
There are some around who have zero clue how the game is actually played on the field and rely solely on what their calculator tells them (often after already forming their opinion).
Yep. They came of the womb with a calculator in one hand and a pocket protector in the other. They grew up punching away at that calculator watching others play little league. When they weren't doing that, they were punching away on their calculator as they watched TWIB half heartedly wondering when they would break out into a discussion about why sac flies don't count against batting average but ground outs to first base that score a run do count against batting average.

That is exactly how it goes.

12. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by dougdirt
Yep. They came of the womb with a calculator in one hand and a pocket protector in the other. They grew up punching away at that calculator watching others play little league. When they weren't doing that, they were punching away on their calculator as they watched TWIB half heartedly wondering when they would break out into a discussion about why sac flies don't count against batting average but ground outs to first base that score a run do count against batting average.

That is exactly how it goes.

For some, it possibly happened this way I guess. For others they've arrived in the same spot by a different route. Either way, the whole "picking sides" a la Sharks vs Jets is silly and arrogant. Both approaches have merit.

13. Likes:

Old school 1983 (07-04-2013)

14. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by Tom Servo
It appears we are getting to the point where those who have determined that they don't like "the sabermetrics guys" are drawing a line in the sand and declaring a pre-emptive war against them. It's essentially a form of trolling; saying things to get a rise out of posters and cause arguments. I think we're better than it.
I've been saying that for weeks. It's like a nerd witch hunt.

15. Likes:

RedEye (07-04-2013)

16. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by TSJ55
For some, it possibly happened this way I guess. For others they've arrived in the same spot by a different route. Either way, the whole "picking sides" a la Sharks vs Jets is silly and arrogant. Both approaches have merit.
Both approaches have merit. Using only one misses an awful lot.

17. Likes:

Always Red (07-04-2013),Old school 1983 (07-04-2013),reds1869 (07-04-2013)

18. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by redssince75
Perhaps it's just a by-product of heavy participation in a baseball board, but "sabermetrics" is discussed and believed in about 1,000% more on this board than it is among baseball fans I know in real life. (And yes, that's a made-up stat, and I know 1,000% isn't a real thing).

I find the OPSs and the WARs and all that stuff very tiresome, it seems no one here just talks the enjoyment and art of baseball. So occasionally I'll take a little potshot across the bow to relieve the pressure.
If you don't want to talk about it.... then start a thread talking about what you want to talk about. Don't troll. Contribute to the board instead of hurting it.

19. Likes:

Raisor (07-04-2013),RedEye (07-04-2013),Revering4Blue (07-04-2013)

20. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by dougdirt
Both approaches have merit. Using only one misses an awful lot.
Thanks for re-stating my point so concisely. I get wordy sometimes.

21. Re: Wait, what?

Do not feed the troll.

22. Re: Wait, what?

As Keats famously wrote:

When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

Appreciating this game an be taken through either a statistically supported approach or an experiential, more emotional approach. Both bring the truth and beauty of the game to the user, even if they can't be used to truly sway someone away from their approach.

23. Likes:

marcshoe (07-04-2013),TSJ55 (07-04-2013)

24. Re: Wait, what?

Originally Posted by dougdirt
Where did you go to find out how many hits and at bats a guy had that didn't also have the average right there? I would advise you avoid going there again because they are clearly missing the boat on this whole programming thing.
I figured out Shaun Ellis' ERA as a starter after his first three innings of the game. His ERA in the box score included his time as a reliever. So I had to take his numbers as a starter at the time of the game and compute that number.

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